Wild Cards

This is literally true of most of the Wildcards listed above, including at quick glance: all of the Fighting Wildcards (for fighting) and Camerupt.

Here's an image of Sandshrew blending in with rocks (since apparently I need a source for the fact that its design is based on rocks).

In Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green, a trainer in the Pewter City Gym has a Sandshrew Source. Furthermore, there is not a single other non-Rock type Pokemon used by any of the trainers in Pewter City Gym. But actually sandshrew is the only non-Rock type Pokemon to appear in any Rock Gym in any Pokemon Game.

It also thematically gains a boost in its stats due to Sandstorm (similar to Rock Pokemon with SpD) through its two abilities, Sand Veil and Sand Rush, which boost Evasion & Speed, respectively.

Honestly, in what world is Kangaskhan more Fighting type than Sandslash is Rock type? Kangaskhan has absolutely no Fighting characteristics at all besides the fact that it is bipedal and has fists. It gets 1 Fighting type move level up (so does Sandslash for Rock!)

Also, Accelgor is distinctly not Poisonous. The only thing here is that Koga was a ninja and he was the Poison gym leader and Accelgor is also based on a ninja. Also, it's based off a tube worm which is not a poisonous creature, so don't try that.

Stoutland is distinctly not ground either. It literally doesn't even learn Earthquake, which is the Ground move. The only thing is that it gets Sand Rush as its ability. Sand Rush is only held by 6% of the Ground Pokemon (a whopping 4 of them).


EDIT: I'm also incredibly unsurprised that all of the Senior Referees' gyms got extremely useful boosts to their gyms.

 

This isn't to be a jerk or anything, but I bolded some of the things you said that sounded belligerent. Even if you didn't intend them to be so, I would ask that you please refrain from turning this thread into a flame war or anger-fueled in any way. We truly respect your opinion, and you have no reason to think anyone doesn't. (If we didn't, we wouldn't have bothered to revisit the issue at all.) I don't think anyone wants this thread to become as toxic as some of others have been, so let's keep it calm and it constructive. I know you have helpful things to say, and we're here to listen, but I don't like feeling like I'm being insulted.

 

That's the idea, yes. This is a pre-approved list, and approvals wont be made in applications by LO's. Avoids all future disagreements/grey areas.

Interesting point - you could decide to use a different Mega then end up having your wildcard Mega forced. Must hold Megastone seems like the simplest rule, then obviously can't mega evolve if something else already has.

 

Overall, I do tend to lean towards supporting Sandslash. I'll be back in a bit to check posts etc and see if anyone else says anything.

 

I think the list as a whole is really good! There are really only very slight things I would change. What exactly is the reasoning behind Samurott, Stoutland, Dusknoir and Gothitelle?

Not sure if it matters but I think Sandslash fits the argument just as well as about half the Pokemon on the list. It might not have direct references to Rock but that was clearly some inspiration for its design. If Rock was a great gym or already got some decent WCs I would probably disagree but I think in this particular instance, it's a fair one. Let's not forget that once upon a time Excadrill was an alright Rock WC, and Sandslash is a very poor man's Excadrill lol

Possibly worth noting that Parasect isn't actually the Pokemon that emit spores and the like, but rather the parasite that infested the Parasect body. Spores and fungi don't really scream poison to me tbh since a very small proportion of fungi are poisonous, I'm not sure if spores can even be poisonous. Just seems kinda odd pick imo. Even Zangoose seems more fitting even though its poison resistance is due to evolving alongside Seviper.

Regarding Kangaskhan, I actually think it is kind of better for a Fighting Gym than Electivire, I personally would probably go with it if I had one. Its Thunder Punch actually hits harder than Vire's lol. I would be very hesitant to give this out as a WC option !

 

Just throwing out more suggestions for Rock, in case any of these are preferred over Sandslash:

Mamoswine: Learns a bunch of rock moves (pretty much all of them), is ground type, and evolves via a Rock move (Ancientpower)

Dugtrio: Learns a bunch of rock moves, has rocks in its sprite, and Diglett can be found living inside of rocks via Rock Smash Source

If none of those then I guess I'd argue Sableye next:

Holding a rock in its sprite (for Mega), has rocks all over its body, learns Power Gem level-up, also learns Rock Tomb! Also most of its in game descriptions are about eating rocks, e.g. "Sableye digs the ground with sharpened claws to find rocks that it eats. Substances in the eaten rocks crystallize and rise up to the Pokémon's body surface." Source

 

Those are the reasons we picked 'em! If there's something you still don't really agree with, lemme know =]

I really hope you added this in before we talked because I'm really trying to help you, and this just makes me sound biased and like I don't care about other types and I don't appreciate it (again). If it was before, then 100% disregard this because we already talked it out I don't want to open old wounds. I don't think I need to refute the actual statement again (Monbrey already did) but if you need more convincing I'd be happy to give a list of more.

 

Just to minorly disprove this point, but you guys actually listed Kanga in just the general approved WC list and not in the Must Hold MegaStone WC list. Unless I'm just misunderstanding what you meant here, totes possible.

 

I guess I used a poor choice of words. You don't have to make it your Mega, but the argument against it was due to Mega Kangaskhan being imbalanced. Regular Kangaskhan isn't broken at all.

 

Ok, yeah, I just wanted to double check on that. LIKE I SAID, TOTES POSSIBLE I MISUNDERSTOOD

 

So just some food for thought about Cradily in water gym: It's a barnacle; that's solely a marine animal, like, it only lives in the ocean. Why would we be all okay with Salamence getting into a fire gym because it's a dragon that learns fire moves and lives in fiery terrain (which, not all 'dragons' live in fiery terrain, but yea mence does, so it makes sense), but Cradily, which is a barnacle that learns water moves and lives in the ocean (which all barnacles live in the ocean) is a bit out of the question?

I mean, if I had a water gym, I'd probably go with Dragalge anyway 'cause of grass type pokemon, but not having Cradily a viable wc for water seems silly if you're all so cool with pokemon like mence being in fire.

Also if Cradily is too OP for water gym why isn't Salamence too OP for fire gym?

 

The "must hold stone" list are Pokemon which are allowed BECAUSE they gain the type through Mega Evolution, not because they were selected as wildcards.

Therefore, like Darmanitan which gains Psychic through an ability and MUST use that ability if in a Psychic gym, these Megas MUST hold their Megastone to at least somewhat meet the conditions of being that type.

 

Dugtrio I think I'd lean towards no, Mamoswine has a good case and I'm definitely considering it. Sableye was already discussed and decided against (as with any other gem-like Pokemon)

 

Essentially, the point isn't how good the Pokemon is on its own, it's how good it can make the gym as a whole.

When Water is already one of the best types to defend, the aim of the wildcards isn't to put that even further ahead of the pack - it's to try and help the other's catch up to that level. I certainly don't think Fire is a bad type to defend, but it isn't right up there at the top like Flying and Water.

Triplepostin

 

Reposting list cause new page and what not:

Normal: Clefable, Granbull
Grass: Sudowoodo, Florges
Fire: Salamence, Solrock
Water: Dragalge, Stunfisk, Masquerain
Electric: Klinklang, Porygon-Z, Porygon2, Probopass
Ice: Empoleon, Samurott
Fighting: Electivire, Bisharp, Kangaskhan, Pinsir
Poison: Gliscor, Breloom, Parasect, Accelgor
Ground: Tyranitar, Stoutland
Flying: Volcarona, Flygon, Venomoth, Beedrill, Dustox
Psychic: Venomoth, Ninetales, Golduck, Darmanitan (Zen Mode only)
Bug: Flygon, Kabutops, Gliscor, Drapion
Rock: Camerupt, Torkoal, Steelix
Dragon: Charizard, Gyarados
Ghost: Ninetales, Rotom Forms
Steel: Electrode, Golurk
Dark: Dusknoir, Arbok, Gothitelle
Fairy: Audino, Blissey, Phione

@swiftgallade46 ; Niqqa I've done a ton of microbiology modules don' even try test me on this! The reality of fungi is a very minute amount are actually poisonous. There's 100,000-200,000 known fungi, only around 100 or so are actually poisonous at all, almost all from the same family. Not going to get into this but the point is that spores are very rarely toxic. Does this apply to Pokemon world? Who knows/cares. Parasect really don't fit poison imo, while Breloom I would only ever let because of Poison Heal if that in itself is a good enough argument (is it? Wasn't for Gliscor, alas).

Samurott and Stoutland are pretty weak. Mamoswine is also pretty weak if you consider the Pokemon itself is legit a woolly mammoth and has no trace of Rock on it. Ancient Power for evolution is literally because mammoths = ancient and the only ancient move happens to be Rock type. If Mmoswine was found in fossils, sure. As it is, I wouldn't really think it fits at all.

Ninetales in Ghost and Psychic seems a little odd since it fits Ghost kind of well, and Psychic kind of well, but neither spectcularly. Not really sure what to think of it. All of the Dark are quite a stretch imo. Does Golurk have any metal or is just because it seems based on the Iron Giant or w/e that movie was called?

I think the overall Kanga argument could literally apply to a lot of Normals. Lopunny seems kind of Fighting like even before a mega existed, Ambipom too. Granbull perhaps.

The rest is perfect though lol

 

Completely biased, but I think Gengar has a stronger case for Dark WC than some of the ghosties, like Dusknoir.

Physiology/Stuff/There was a category for misc I swear
=lives in dark places
=FireRed Dex: It is said to emerge from darkness to steal the lives of those who become lost in mountains.
=Pt, B/W/2 Dexes: The leer that floats in darkness belongs to a Gengar delighting in casting curses on people.
=Found in Darkness Ridge/Dark Temple in the PMD side games
=generally all evil and dark and stuff

Movesets:
=Learns Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse, and Payback by level-up (all dark moves; a lot of actual dark-types don't get these by level-up lol)
=Learns Taunt (okay, that's pretty weak), Torment, Thief, Fling, Embargo, (and Payback/Dark Pulse again) by TM--I think that's all the dark-tm's besides Snarl and Hone Claws, which go to a lot of non-dark types and don't actually go to many dark-types to begin with
=Learns Foul Play, Snatch, and Knock off by Move Tutor

If we follow the whole "can't have a WC weak to the gym's type" argument to disallow Gengar, then we can't have Dusknoir or Gothitelle either, haha.

Otherwise, I think this is a wonderfully imbalancing idea that'll definitely hike up the difficulties of gym challenges/make it much harder to obtain badges. I'm on board.


edit: oh and karen used one in dark e4. there aren't any gyms to pull from, but I think the only non-darks used in dark-specializing teams are gengar and maybe also karen's vileplume?

 

Although I totally agree it fits thematically, it's mechanically COMPLETELY opposite to the gyms type.

-Resists and SE STAB against Fairy
-4x resistant to Bug
-Completely immune to Fighting

 

Said this already, but so is Mence in Fire, haha.

 

Mence shares the Rock weakness which is really the biggest problem faced in a Fire gym (except maybe rain)