Wild Cards

Thanks for compiling this @swiftgallade46; ! Just noting an old one you missed,

Kabutops for Bug: Based off of a Trilobite which is pretty much a type of insect.

 

It's probably worth deciding whether we want to allow other types to reach the God tier with Flying and Water? Togekiss in Normal and Salamence in Fire are the only two examples I can see of this in the above list, but worth nothing. Togekiss has a pretty good argument, which makes it kind of a tough call. Arguably Clefable would look more Normal, but is that enough to let it be used and not Togekiss? Allowing Togekiss would give a pretty good gym (from my experience) a Pokemon that 4x resists the type's only weakness, and happens to be in the top 3 (imo, def top 5) Pokemon in URPG.

 

Well I'm obviously going to be supportive of Fire, but from a purely hypothetical standpoint if the point of Wildcards is to attempt to add balance, shouldn't we really be aiming for all gyms to be that tier?

 

I suppose. I'm honestly a bit torn to be honest. Ultimately, it is better to have more top-tier and everything else at least viable than two top tier and most viable.

I don't really have much else to add for now, just Flygon is probably another option for Bug (phenology aside it's in the Bug egg group iirc with Drapion and Gliscor)

 

Well, I disagree with a bunch of the Pokemon that list for various reasons. A few seems like... REALLY bad to me. Lumineon is a fish, not a bug. A butterfly fish is still a fish. Nobody thinks a catfish is actually a cat.

 

flygon is based on an antlion so gets the same claim as gliscor/drapion in bug, not just egg group and moves.

also cacturne and to a lesser extent maractus are good shouts for rock/ground

 

I scratched out some of the very iffy ones to give a narrower selection. Some iffy ones probably still present

 

How come you scratched out Lopunny for Fighting WC but left in Sceptile for Dragon WC? They both get the type upon Mega, isn't that one of the generally accepted reasons for WC these days?

 

I removed Lopunny and Pinsir, but after talking to a few people I think I prefer all megas that change type being a WC. Even though Ampharos or Pinsir or a few others just don't really fit, probably best to just let them all in.

Also, Cacturne is a pretty reasonable Ground WC (credit fox), its blood is literally sand lol

 

Ugh, we're already on our way to arguments.

I agree with most of what you've ruled out Syn, other than if we're going to allow some or all Pokemon who gain the gym type from Mega Evolution.

Additional things I might have crossed out:
Probopass in Electric seems iffy.
Flygon in Bug... maaybe. There's sorta a resemblance and Vibrava is clearly insectoid
Ground/Steel/Ghost options are pretty dumb, but slim pickings
Ampharos in Dragon - I know the mega gets the type but it really isn't remotely draconian

Things I might not have crossed out (other than megas mentioned above):
I kinda feel like Gengar has a valid case for Dark. It's a shadow manipulator, shadows by definition can only exist somewhere that Light is blocked/doesn't fall.
Initial reaction for Water is "Why Dragalge and not Malamar, one is a seaweed seahorse thing, the other is a squid thing" but I do think Dragalge is a better fit.
Id be okay with Pinsir in Fighting but who cares, not like you need another Flying weakness in there

 

This is based fully on my opinion, rather than a compilation of everyone else's with mine included.

 

My only problem with Cacturne as a Ghost WC is that it isn't possessed though, it's just a Pokemon that has the shape of a cactus scarecrow. Like, yeah, it's a murderous Pokemon that'll stalk people who get tired or some shit like that, but it isn't possessed at all, just an evil thing.

Though if we are using possession and everything as a reason for Ghost WC, then Rotom forms should be considered because it's a Ghost possessing and controlling electrical equipment. Also, forms are former Ghost types and Rotom's movepool is 25% Ghost moves.

 

k fine here's my whole list

 

Coupla random opinions:

Cradily in Water makes sense, it's can be argued that Cradily is too good in Water but thematically it fits.

Probopass should be viable for Electric, it gets lots of Electric moves that are normally Electric-only, its almost literally an electromagnet, and I'm pretty sure there's some fluff somewhere that says Probopass hangs out around electrical places and uses electricity to fight.

Empoleon being an Ice WC seems a little weak to me gameplay wise. It's a penguin, so what? The surroundings of a creature do not always relate to its type.

Electivire as a Fighting WC is because it gets a fair few Fighting-type moves that normally only Fighting-type Pokemon get (Cross Chop, Submission, others that I can't remember).

Bisharp as a Fighting WC because it's clearly designed as a melee-based warrior, which is in the spirit of Fighting Pokemon. It gets a couple Fighting moves too. Hoenstly, if this one gets called out as BS I won't mind, I just remember taking a shot in the dark asking Ataro if he'd okay it and I wrote up a big thing and he did.

Breloom for Poison is obvious.

I think if Mismagius gets in for Psychic, Ninetales should as well. They're both very mystical, Psychic-ey Pokemon.

Flygon for Bug, swift's reasons.

 

Maybe this would be easier if we did 1 type at a time...

EDIT: That way people aren't arguing over multiple things at multiple times? It'll probably take longer but be more organized. We could just go in order of Swifts listing I guess.

 

Alright, the Senior Refs held a sooper seecrit discussion and compiled this list. We're all agreed on what is currently listed here.
I also edited it into the first post.

Official first-draft compiled by Senior Ref Team:

Spoiler

Normal: Clefable, Granbull
Grass: Sudowoodo, Florges
Fire: Salamence, Solrock
Water: Dragalge, Stunfisk, Masquerain
Electric: Klinklang, Porygon-Z, Porygon2, Probopass
Ice: Empoleon, Samurott
Fighting: Electivire, Bisharp, Kangaskhan, Pinsir
Poison: Gliscor, Breloom, Parasect, Accelgor
Ground: Tyranitar, Stoutland
Flying: Volcarona, Flygon, Venomoth, Beedrill, Dustox
Psychic: Venomoth, Ninetales, Golduck, Darmanitan (Zen Mode only)
Bug: Flygon, Kabutops, Gliscor, Drapion
Rock: Camerupt, Torkoal, Steelix
Dragon: Charizard, Gyarados
Ghost: Ninetales, Rotom Forms
Steel: Electrode, Golurk
Dark: Dusknoir, Arbok, Gothitelle
Fairy: Audino, Blissey, Phione

These additional Pokemon which gain the type through Mega Evolution are also acceptable, but MUST be used with a Megastone which you must own.
Pokemon which are in the list above and gain the type through Mega Evolution (Charizard-Dragon and Audino-Fairy) are not bound by this requirement.

Fighting: Lopunny
Flying: Pinsir
Dragon: Ampharos, Sceptile
Dark: Gyarados
Fairy: Altaria

Feel free to ask why we decided to add or remove any specific Pokemon from this list.
You're also welcome to suggest any others to be taken under consideration/added back to the list - please provide your case if you do so.

 

I'd like to ask why Sandslash was decided against since you seemed in favor of it the last time I posted. I already laid out all of the stylistic reasons for it, but it would be very helpful competitively for my gym since it gets Sand Rush which gives me a 3rd Pokemon above 259 Speed (yes, every single Pokemon besides Aerodactyl and Archeops is 259 or below). All 3 of those above Pokemon have like no purpose in a Rock gym since they are all very slow and weak to Water (one of them 4x weak) with low SpDs.

Or maybe Gliscor? I understand the disdain for all of the "jewel" Pokemon, but at least something. Rock is not a very competitive gym, I don't think it needs to be gimped even more by a lack of wildcard when most other types are either very good naturally or have usable wildcards.

 

I actually think we got sidetracked away from Sandslash while deciding against Sableye. I'm on the fence with it, I'll make sure it gets discussed properly.

I can see some design similarities for Sandslash but I don't understand the competitive-based argument. Speed-wise sure, but it's still weak to Water and Grass.

I know Gliscor used to be a Rock type wildcard but that was always an iffy one. I see a resemblance to stone gargoyles but I know there's been a lot of mixed opinions. I'll make sure it also gets discussed.

 

Also, just to clarify, but with this being basically the go to list for wildcards, does this mean that approval isn't needed if gyms were to go to the update thread and replace one of their Pokemon with a WC or if someone were to apply for a gym and can just list said Pokemon in their lineup as a WC?

Also, minor side question, but what happens with the ones where a WC must be used with a Mega Stone if they were roar'd/etc in while a leader had already used a different MegaEvo?

 

There was more discussion about Sandslash after Monbrey's post, and honestly, the more we looked at it and talked about it the less it seemed remotely Rock-like. Nowhere on the Bulbapedia page does "rock" or "stone" show up in any way describing Sandslash itself, only as a move name or type, a location, or describing another Pokémon (Onix) mentioned on the page. Gliscor's argument is also fairly non-existent to be honest. If you can provide things that tie them to Rock, we'd be happy to reexamine it.

I will leave the first point to Monbrey. The second point however, I am fairly sure the rule is it must hold the stone. I could be wrong, so listen to him if he says otherwise.