Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

A lot of people have mentioned this on AIM in the past, but I don't think it was ever posted on the forums. A good few are of the opinion that there are too many Pokemon in the mart and some mart choices are a little random and seemingly unnecessary. IMO, it'd be a lot cleaner if the mart was reduced to starters, route one rodent and bird, fossils, pseudolegends, pikaclones and Eevee. There are a lot of Pokemon in the Mart that are Simple rank, so if they weren't in it, there'd be a lot more stories too, which is always a plus. Here's a quick proposed list if people like the idea. Pokemon remaining in mart in bold


Bulbasaur - $10,000
Charmander - $10,000
Squirtle - $10,000
Pidgey - $7,000
Rattata - $7,000
Sandshrew - $8,000
Nidoran ♀ - $9,000
Nidoran ♂ - $9,000
Zubat - $6,500
Meowth - $8,000
Bellsprout - $6,500
Geodude - $6,500
Doduo - $7,000
Seel - $8,000
Grimer - $8,000
Shellder - $8,000
Voltorb - $8,000
Exeggcute - $8,000
Goldeen - $6,500
Pinsir - $11,000
Ditto - $8,500 - debatable
Lapras - $11,000 - debatable
Eevee - $10,500
Omanyte - $13,000
Kabuto - $13,000
Dratini - $13,000


Chikorita - $10,000
Cyndaquil - $10,000
Totodile - $10,000
Sentret - $7,000
Hoothoot - $7,000
Ledyba - $8,000
Spinarak - $8,000
Chinchou - $7,000
Pichu - $6,500
Cleffa - $6,500
Igglybuff - $6,500
Togepi - $6,500 - debatable
Mareep - $6,500
Hoppip - $6,500
Aipom - $8,000
Sunkern - $8,000
Wooper - $8,500
Misdreavus - $9,000
Pineco - $7,000
Snubbull - $8,000
Shuckle - $9,000
Heracross - $11,500
Teddiursa - $8,000
Slugma - $8,000
Corsola - $9,000
Phanpy - $8,000
Tyrogue - $9,000
Smoochum - $8,000
Elekid - $8,000
Magby - $8,000
Larvitar - $13,000


Treecko - $10,000
Torchic - $10,000
Mudkip - $10,000
Poochyena - $6,500
Zigzagoon - $7,000
Taillow - $7,000
Wingull - $7,000
Azurill - $6,500
Plusle - $8,500
Minun - $8,500
Numel - $8,000
Trapinch - $9,000 - arguable
Lileep - $13,000
Anorith - $13,000
Shuppet - $8,500
Duskull - $10,000
Wynaut - $6,500
Spheal - $8,000
Bagon - $13,000
Beldum - $13,000


Turtwig - $10,000
Chimchar - $10,000
Piplup - $10,000
Starly - $7,000
Bidoof - $7,000
Shinx - $7,000
Budew - $6,500
Cranidos - $13,000
Shieldon - $13,000
Pachirisu - $8,000
Buizel - $7,000
Bonsly - $6,500
Mime Jr. - $8,000
Chatot - $8,000
Gible - $13,000
Skorupi - $10,000
Mantyke - $8,000


Snivy - $10,000
Tepig - $10,000
Oshawott - $10,000
Patrat - $6,500
Lillipup - $7,000
Purrloin - $10,000
Pansage - $9,000
Pansear - $9,000
Panpour - $9,000
Pidove - $6,500
Blitzle - $10,000
Woobat - $6,500
Yamask - $9,000
Tirtouga - $13,000
Archen - $13,000
Emolga - $7,000
Karrablast - $9,000
Ducklett - $9,000
Axew - $13,000
Shelmet - $9,000
Rufflet - $10,000
Vullaby - $10,000
Deino - $13,000


Chespin - $10,000
Fennekin - $10,000
Froakie - $10,000
Bunnelby - no idea why this isn't in current mart anyway
Fletchling - $7,000
Dedenne - $7,500
Tyrunt - $13,000
Amaura - $13,000
Goomy - $13,000

Just to note, with these suggestions there are still 53 lines of Pokemon in the mart, meaning there are about 1/3 of nonlegends available in mart, which is a lot more manageable imo. Really interested to know how people feel about this!

 

Ya, I've always thought there were too many Pokemon in the mart too. I think that the idea of having a lot of Pokemon in the Mart is a very outdated idea (as evidenced by how few Pokemon are in the Mart from Gen VI), going back to pre-Art/park when stories (and occasional events) were literally the only way to get Pokemon not in the mart. Now that there are a lot more options for members to obtain Pokemon, I think that it wouldn't be out of the question to do an overhaul of the Pokemart.

In terms of specifically which Pokemon: Personally, I would like to see fossils be removed from the Pokemart, and then make them less difficult to get from the underground and lower their story rank. I think that would make the underground actually worth going to (I have a lot of grievances about this, but I'll save for another time). Also, I think that it isn't really necessary for them to be Complex rank. I honestly think the only reason they are complex is because they are available in the mart, so if removed from mart they could easily be dropped to Hard/Medium (I mean it's not like any of them are really that good, though I guess they are "rare" in game).

Some more notes on Syn's list:

• Pichu/Cleffa/Igglybuff/Togepi/Azurill (aka the baby "fairies") because they are all sort of beginner-esque Pokemon that offer several competitive Pokemon in their final forms
• Ditto should stay, but Lapras should go. Ditto is a niche Pokemon that just makes sense to me as a Mart Pokemon. Honestly, never understood why Lapras was mart to begin with ("because they give you a Lapras in game!!!" ya they also give you a Riolu egg and a Larvesta egg).
• Poochyena/Shinx/Lillipup/Purrloin/Blitzle. I think all of the quadruped early game Pokemon should be available, they are all defined by GameFreak as "Beginner Pokemon" so making them available easily is obviously not an issue.
• I don't see why Trapinch needs to be mart. It isn't really a "pseudo," nor is it that good.
• Pansage/Pansage/Panpour - Beginning game Pokemon that aren't very good, but also are usable.
• Pachirisu - You got the other Electric Rodents, probably just missed this one.
• Budew - This one I'm not really sure on, but it is a very early Pokemon in D/P/Pt, though it sort of breaks the mold of early game Pokemon. I could go either way with this.
• Ledyba / Spinarak - For consistency's sake, I think if they do get removed from the mart they should definitely be bumped down the Easiest rank since they are the only beginning bugs that are simple (for whatever reason). Also, consider bumping them regardless since it makes little sense to me. (Maybe original thinking was three stage Bugs would be easiest and two stage simple? But Kricketot and Burmy have since both been added to Easiest. An alternative would be to bump those two up to Simple)

Anyway, those are my thoughts on this. I think it's a little unfair to new members, but since we're opening a new branch maybe it wouldn't be that bad? I understand there are a lot of logistical concerns to this, but I've always thought it was a good idea.

 

I don't see it so unfair for them really since most of the mons that I suggested are Simple rank, which even new members can write for easily enough. I agree with the baby Pokemon too, although they could be included if we ever did a Daycare or way to get Eggs, or just some Easter events. Fossils being removed make it a lot harder to get Rock types which a lot of newer members like to go for as a gym type. I'm not overly against it though.

Also, something I forgot to note was Pokemon have been removed from the Mart before so it isn't unheard of, and could really be a right step when moving towards a new branch and promoting other methods of obtaining Pokemon.

 

Doing this massively screws up the type balance available in the mart. For instance, I don't see a single Ghost that's getting kept. I'm actually much less against this than I thought I would be. More stuff should be added to the Berry Store if the mart is being thinned down though.

 

Well, to clarify, I didn't mean unfair as in "Pokemon are now so hard to get!!!" I meant every member who joined before suddenly has more valuable Pokemon. Not to mention the fact that URPG is already kind of hard for beginners. Also, I don't think we should say Rock Gyms should be easily available just because beginners have had Rock Gyms in the past... Kinda feels like the whole one type deserves special treatment argument (akin to Wildcard).

To address Ash's displeasure with type balance:

I see two sides to this: on the one hand, I don't really think type imbalance is that big of a deal. I mean ghost/dark types are notoriously difficult to get in game so logically they would be the same in the URPG. Like, there's a reason that Bug Pokemon are so easily obtained, it's because a lot of them are not very good. Plus, there aren't an equal amount of Pokemon for each type, so why should there be an equal amount of each type available in the mart?

However, I could see how "forcing" (not really forcing but bear with me) members to get Pokemon types they don't like could seem unfair. Therefore, I'd like to offer a solution. Why not go ahead with the list Syn has above (of mostly beginner Pokemon, starters, and the pseudo legendaries) and then offer 1 Pokemon of each type. In Syns suggested list the only type missing is Ghost... I don't see why something like Yamask couldn't stay in the mart.

In my suggested list (the biggest drop of which was the fossil pokemon):

Bug (which is the easiest type to get Pokemon from, though I think Pinsir would be a good one to keep), Ghost (see above, Yamask) & Ice (besides Glaceon, but something like Spheal would be fine to keep)

 

Yeah, I didn't necessarily mean it had to be exactly equal amounts of each, just that it's unfair for any type to be missing entirely. Also, isn't Lillipup and/or Purrloin first route (at least in B2W2) and Poochyena first route?

As far as I can tell, Poison is also absent. Perhaps something like Zubat should stay, because that's really easy to get in game too.

Another crazy idea is to keep the babies.

 

Not seeing a strong argument for why this would be good other than "More stories/art/park". I'm not opposed either, I'd just like to see more discussion.

Could someone do a breakdown of what ranks the proposed removed Pokemon fit into? Would probably help to know what difficulties we'll be forcing people into if this did happen.

 

Although more stories/art is a really good reason, another one is the list we have now has a lot of Pokemon that just don't fit in. Pinsir, Lapras, Chatot and such make no sense to be in the Mart.

Regarding type balance, I don't think there is a need to go out of our way to include one of each type. Like Smores said, types like Dark, Ghost and Ice are hard to get in-game and less numerous than other types, so making them not available from the Mart doesn't seem that strange to me. Forcing them in because of types probably leads to "you didn't include my favourite of whatever type" and potential "bias".

Including the babies could work. I don't really feel strong for or against it tbh.

Monbrey, regarding ranks, the vast majority are Simple, with a few Medium and Hard. One Demanding and maybe two Complex.

 

Simple 35
Medium 22
Hard 10
Complex 3
Demanding 1

 

This is based on the assumption that EVERY Pokemon in the mart needs to fit a strict set of rules or pattern for eligibility. There are some givens (such as the starters/pseudos etc) that get a spot. The rest are chosen at random, general Pokemon that we'd like to make available easily. The only difference with Gen 6 was that due to the smaller total number in the generation, we decided not to include randoms after the given spots were filled.

 

Just throwing this out there, but you might want to look at the actual viability of the Pokemon in question, as opposed to rank. How many people actually go about buying Bonsly or Geodude or Chatot or Misdreavus or Sunkern or Snubull?

These are 'mons for new people, because they're easy to acquire and hook the new player on the game, because it gives them the ability to have multiple 'mons early and with considerably less effort.

Quite frankly, the majority of the ones you've proposed to stop selling aren't that powerful and I don't see why they shouldn't be in the mart, for that very reason. We, as older players, don't want to buy them. Think about the new people, instead.

 

This post is far too considerate of other people. That's now how Trainer's Court works.

 

With my proposed list there are still 53 families of Pokemon in the Pokemart. That's quite a substantial amount. Now that new players don't have to depend solely on stories (with art and contest and park and eventually dungeons freely available), there's absolutely no need to have an excessive amount like the current 126 families.

I think you've got the idea all wrong to be honest. Being a white knight can be cool I guess, but quite unnecessary here. New players very often go for the starters or pseudolegends or Eevee. All those options and more would still be available. Very few people buy Pokemon such as Chatot.

Looking at many of the Pokemon to be removed, I'm limiting everyone, not just new people. Myself definitely included. I don't really own many marts and same with a lot of players who actively take part in most of the URPG sections.

Also, fyi, making things easier to obtain does not hook people into URPG. If you want them easier to obtain, make them even cheaper than they are and expand the mart selection to include every Pokemon seems like a great way to bolster activity. Sorry dude, but your argument is pretty inaccurate. Think of everyone, instead.

 

There's a balance between "so frustratingly impossible I'm not even going to bother" and "So easy there's no point anymore".

*Points to signature* "When you can have anything you want by [posting] a few words, the goal matters not, only the journey to it."

They are quite right, most of the things you're proposing cutting out are things I see new members buy 10x as often as older members. When's the last time you saw someone who's been around for a while buy Wingull, Poochyena, Sunkern, Lillipup, Ledyba, etc.?

Many new members might not be very good artists/writers/etc. or might simply have no interest in doing any of those. In almost four years in URPG, I've earned three Pokémon from stories, one from park, and none from art. I'm not sure if I would have stuck around initially if I couldn't get very many Pokémon from the mart. While the opposite does also exist (someone like Felly who refuses to buy anything from the mart) and anywhere in between, we can't ignore any part of that range.

It's amazing how many of these hypothetically great suggestions (usually involving either Pokémon availability or basic battles) would be such great ideas if not for having to balance new members and old members (not saying we shouldn't balance new members and old members, we definitely have to).

 

I'm just not seeing any strong arguments to completely remove all these Pokemon. Some could be, others could be replaced. An overall restructure of the Pokemon available in the Pokemart would probably be a good thing. Generation 2 is flooded with Pokemon because of all the babies. But I see no reason that we have to stick to a strict set of rules as to what can and can't be in the Pokemart.

 

It's a good point that they buy those Pokemon a lot more than other players, but I think they buy them because those Pokemon are the cheapest. They usually want to build a team up quickly before focusing on giving their Pokemon EMs. If the baby Pokemon were kept in the Mart, and sold for maybe an even 5k (no h8 pls) I'm sure they'd be bought just as much, if not more than the Pokemon that were included for the sake of making Pokemon easier to get.

Also, your comment about not using the Park or writing stories is exactly what we should want to change. I'm not saying everyone should be forced to use these methods (remember TM Case trades are very much alive and well), but that there should be more focused on these sections. PXR is a community that prides itself on creativity and roleplaying. They will definitely look towards the Stories section and the Park, and also Art looking at a lot of their forums. Broadeningthe Pokemon at Simple rank that are not Marts (generally more desirable since they can't be simply purchased) will give new members and older members huge freedom in what they want to write/RP/draw for.

While slightly unrelated, I think an event for anyone who joins from February 21st until March 21st that makes Pokemon easier to obtain would be a really cool idea. Perhaps an event where every Pokemon is put to the rank below their current rank in Stories/Park/Art/Contests. Or a back to basics style event to go along with the basics tournament would be pretty cool.

@Monbrey ; Good point with the Electric Pokemon marts. I don't own Shinx, Plusle, Minun and Pachirsu who are all Marts. Like I said, this limits me just as much as most others. I still feel like newer members aren't really being limited because of the lower ranks of the removed Pokemon.

 

While an increase in other sections would be a good thing, my point was that some members might just quit really early or not even bother joining. Yes, TM Cases are popular. However, I don't think I've really ever see a new member trading a TM Case for a non-mart. What's to say that if we implemented this it wouldn't just cause potentially amazing members to quit very early in their career, discouraged by how hard it is to get more Pokémon?

 

That's why I proposed an Event for newer members. Gawd Ash.

 

So you do have Raichu, Electrode, Jolteon, Lanturn, Ampharos, Electivire, Zebstrika, Emolga and Dedenne.
You proposed that we keep Plusle and Minun.
Eevee, Emolga and Dedenne were still proposed kept, and there is debate over Pichu/Elekid.
So as a result, new members are limited from Electrode, Lanturn, Ampharos, Zebstrika, Shinx, Pachirisu and possibly Raichu and Electivire., while you limit yourself from Shinx and Pachirisu.


I'm not having a go at you so don't take that personally. I could make exactly the same case with anyone's "signature type", such as my own Magmortar, Magcargo, Camerupt, Simisear, Talonflame and the six starters. The only mart Fire type I don't have is Flareon, and that would stay there with Eevee. I'm not limited at all by these changes.

I will thank you though, I now know that Emolga is a mart mon and I will probably buy one soon.

Like I said, cutting down would be good, but I still think we should keep a general mix of Pokemon that don't fit the starter/bird/rodent/pseudo (+ possibly fossil/baby) sets. A smaller revised mix, sure.

 

I am for leaving it how it is. If anything Snorlax should be put back into the mart. Just kidding.