Too many Pokemon in the Pokemart?

Type balance and type imbalance are completely different things. Okay, but that makes no sense. It's not the only new Ground type.

Also, people only want it in the Mart for consistency, one of the biggest problems with the Mart is its lack of.

 

ZYGARDE FOR MART.

Nobody has been able to explain to me why the Pokemart needs consistency.

 

I don't see a point in any of this. Also, Bunnelby is Simple, I don't see why it shouldn't be in mart. I don't care if it's not in mart, but either way it doesn't matter to me.

 

>Nobody has been able to explain to me why the Pokemart needs inconsistency.

Posts like that contribute nothing, fyi.

 

You're the one demanding consistency without reasoning. You're the one who wants to bring about change. What I'm doing is asking you to contribute to your own argument.

What we currently have is a variety of different Pokemon available - SOME fit a set criteria for selection, and then we picked SOME others to be added, because they're reasonably useful Pokemon, but generally aren't at the top tier of battling - those need to be earned (unless they fit the first criteria eg Blaziken, Dragonite)

When we were considering how to add Generation 6 Pokemon to the Pokemart, we looked at the stats for the previous generations. With the exception of Generation 2, approximately 15% of each generation is available in the Pokemart. Generation 2 was much larger, presumably due to all the additional baby Pokemon. The starter/fossil/pseudo/bird set of criteria met the 15% for Generation 6, so no more were added. So yes, the total number of Pokemon available in the Pokemart has increased a lot over time. So has the total number NOT available in the Pokemart.

I'll admit, it doesn't NEED inconsistency at all. But as I said, if YOU want to enforce consistency, YOU should be telling us why. You told us the benefits of removing Pokemon, but like I said, the other sections would benefit most from removing some of the ones you want to keep. I'm of the opinion that something rare and powerful like a pseudo-legendary should be much harder to obtain.

 

While I agree consistency would be a good thing, I'd also like to point out you're acting like it's only the mart that's inconsistent.

Misdreavus (Hard) | Murkrow (Medium)
Zangoose (Complex) | Seviper (Hard)
Bonsly (Medium) | Mime Jr. (Hard)
Petilil (Berry Store) | Cottonee (Not Berry Store)
Probably more that I'm too lazy to go looking for.

 

Well, is like to share some of my thoughts about specifically why I don't agree with the Bunnelby decision. I don't understand why each generation needs to be sectioned off like it is an individual. There are tons of ground Pokemon that aren't in the Pokemart. Why does the fact that ALL FOUR gen v ground Pokemon are not in the mart not affect this decision? I think it clearly should... For me personally, it doesn't matter that it's a gen vi Pokemon. After the first like two weeks of gen vi coming out, I don't think people really think about what generation their Pokemon are/ whether or not generation affects what Pokemon they get. (some exceptions but on the whole) The reason Game freak can get away with making Bunny the only new Ground type is because they added other ground types from other generations into x and y. There's been a lot of talk about the Pikemon being chosen for convenience and variety, but they are chosen very clearly along generation lines, is this really important? It seems to me, based on what Chainy said since this is my only perspective on the process, that when picking Pokemon for the mart you look only at the Pokemon in that generation, and NOT at all of the Pokemkn already available in the Pokemart.

If you were really picking by availability and diversity, there would be an equal amount of Pokemon of each type and that would be a sufficient amount, but that isn't the case.

This thread is offering another way to look at choosing what Pokemon go in the mart. Instead of picking generation by generation, make the list of Pokemon actually encompassing. Take out Pokemon that really do not need to be in the mart. What Syn posted was the bare minimum of Pokemon that could be in the mart, just because you don't agree with that skeleton doesn't mean you shouldn't take any Pokemon from the mart. For example, why have Jumpluff in the mart. There are already a ton of flying and grass Pokemon in the mart, from pure pseudos and starters alone, what purpose does adding one more serve? Neither type was underrepresented, so based on what you've told me it shouldn't be there.

What I, personally, want to gain from this is at least some sort of logical method for picking the Pokemon in the entire mart, not just by generation. This generation by generation thinking is too close minded. I think that the officials did a good job on X and y, which is why we wouldn't suggest taking any Pokemon from that section. What I would suggest is fixing the fact that almost HALF of the Pokemon in johto are available to buy in the Pokemart. Doesn't that seem excessive? I'm pretty sure I mentioned this before, but the issue isn't that the URPG is wrong in policy now, it's that it WAS wrong in policy and no one is willing to retroactively change anything. No one in this thread can explain to me why the current Kanto/Johto Pokemon are in the mart cuz none of you were there... Don't try to explain it because you can't, clearly the thought processes were different, just compare gen v and gen 2, which seems to defend my point even stronger. The officials have realized that having that many Pokemon in the mart is silly, but no one has changed it. Were asking for that change.

EDIT: I did the math and it looks like MORE than half of the johto Pokemon are available through the Pokemart....

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that if it were really true that type diversity was the goal of the Pokemart, shouldn't Pokemon be separated by type? I know it's sort of a purely aesthetic thing, but if you think about it, it makes sense. People who would be looking through the mart for a new Pokemon to add to their lineup would be looking for what type they need in their lineup. So, maybe do that too.

One more thing. I can't prove that this would definitely be the case, but I think it's a nice assumption. Fewer Pokemon in the mart, there will be fewer instances of people buying a mart Pokemon for the sole purpose of getting the money from basics. I think this is another positive consequence of limiting the mart Pokemon.

 

Consistency should be something that people want. Inconsistentency leads to unreliability.

Removing pseudos would have been a good idea back in Gen 2, not now when everyone has at least one. That would make it a lot harder on the newer members, putting them at a severe disadvantage. Making them possibly have to obtain Simple ranks by other means is on a much more manageable scale.

 

Overall I like what you've posted here... because it seems to be suggesting several things that I already suggested. So good job on that.

 

I suppose I count as a nublet, lol.

I've bought two Pokemon from the Pokemart. I currently own around thirty. Granted, I know I'm probably not the rule but the exception, but I figured I should point that out. Also, I think that if a member of URPG/mlouden can literally have three pages of Pokemon that he only obtained by posting in the Pokemart, there's probably something wrong with the system.

I've been hesitant to post in this thread for a while because I know that a good majority of URPG doesn't follow my route (and by that, I mean they don't enjoy writing fanfiction for fun or drawing fanart for fun or role playing for fun or have at you). Time constraints and having a life and not enjoying doing Pokemon-based stuff is always a problem, and I understand that, but at the same time, I think we should consider what URPG is in general.

As a battle sim, where an important portion of the game is beating other players to a pulp with the Pokemon you've raised, the Mart seems like a perfectly viable option. I discussed this with Syn earlier; we both agree that the Pokemart is definitely a system that favors battle-oriented players, offering them competitively-viable mons (or somewhat, lol, Wingull) in exchange for what battle-oriented players would have a lot of (cash).

But as a role-playing game, I find the idea of a Pokemart absurd to begin with. Yes, it helps players who don't want to write/art/roleplay get Pokemon in an easier fashion, but this is a text-based RPG. The idea that you have to, say, write a story or do an RP is written on the tin to begin with. The games don't actually offer an in-game place to purchase Pokemon, with the exception of a couple of gift events and the casinos/whatever those are called (and before we flood this with the "oh but we're not like the games," consider how we spent weeks agonizing over the gym system). Having the Mart seems like a way to shortchange the other sections, and while the selection is somewhat limited, you can still build a hugely viable competitive team from the Mart alone (compare E4 Teams to Mart selection), which I think is a little counter-intuitive.

No, I'm not trying to diss battling or promote stories (okay maybe a little; shuddup) or insult people, and I'm sorry if it comes across as that. But the Mart takes away the challenge/thrill of obtaining mons and turns the game into a competitive-oriented battle sim; if that's really what we're going for, we should just make everything available and call it a day.

That being said, I'm aware that if we get rid of the Mart or even hurt it a little, URPG will basically shut down because a majority of the people don't want to use the alternate ways of obtaining their Pokemon, but I'm just submitting my two cents on the matter.

/flies away

Oh and hey since I mentioned it earlier, comparison of E4 Teams and Mart breakdown. Using E4 because easiest access, although I assume the OI Gyms contain the same blatantly overused stuff

Spoiler

=Ataro (7/5): Mart: Blaziken, Ditto, Infernape, Jolteon, Metagross, Sceptile, Togekiss; Not-Mart: Alakazam, Gengar, Miltank, Starmie, Whimsicott
=Ash (6/6): Mart: Blaziken, Dragonite, Espeon, Greninja, Talonflame, Togekiss; Not-Mart: Chandelure, Eelektross, Gliscor, Lucario, Murkrow, Slowking
=TheEvilDookie (7/5): Mart: Blaziken, Ditto, Infernape, Jolteon, Metagross, Salamence, Togekiss; Not-Mart: Alakazam, Gengar, Starmie, Weavile, Whimsicott
=WTP (8/4): Mart: Accelgor, Blaziken, Crobat, Dragonite, Greninja, Infernape, Jolteon, Togekiss; Not-Mart: Alakazam, Gengar, Starmie, Whimsicott

So, yeah, it's ~15% of each new generation (although 106 evolutionary families out of probably 500 or so seems absurd), but the face of the metagame is massively mart-based

 

My proposal: a rough 10% of each type is to be present in the mart. That's roughly 100-118, depending. From here, to account for dual-types, you can either make the second typing count for both in the 10%, you can choose to make it count for only the primary type, or choose for it to count for whichever, based on balance and conservation. For our purposes, I suggest the first option. Final-evolution typing was used to calculate this.

Eevee was calculated as Normal, due to the massive amount of 'mons it would count as otherwise.

GM's Proposed ~10% Mart List (Dual types count as 2 types):

Spoiler

Bulbasaur - $10,000
Charmander - $10,000
Squirtle - $10,000
Pidgey - $7,000
Rattata - $7,000
Sandshrew - $8,000
Zubat - $6,500
Geodude - $6,500
Shellder - $8,000
Exeggcute - $8,000
Pinsir* - $11,000
Ditto - $8,500
Eevee - $10,500
Dratini - $13,000



Chikorita - $10,000
Cyndaquil - $10,000
Totodile - $10,000
Sentret - $7,000
Spinarak - $8,000
Chinchou - $7,000
Pichu - $6,500
Cleffa - $6,500
Togepi - $6,500
Mareep - $6,500
Hoppip - $6,500
Aipom - $8,000
Wooper - $8,500
Misdreavus - $9,000
Smoochum - $8,000
Pineco - $7,000
Phanpy - $8,000
Elekid - $8,000
Magby** - $8,000
Larvitar - $13,000
Tyrogue - $9,000
Shuckle† - $9,000



Treecko - $10,000
Torchic - $10,000
Mudkip - $10,000
Poochyena - $6,500
Zigzagoon - $7,000
Azurill - $6,500
Beldum - $13,000
Duskull - $10,000
Shuppet - $8,500
Wynaut - $6,500
Bagon - $13,000
Taillow - $7,000
Spheal - $8,000


Turtwig - $10,000
Chimchar - $10,000
Piplup - $10,000
Starly - $7,000
Bidoof - $7,000
Budew - $6,500
Buizel - $7,000
Bonsly - $6,500
Mime Jr. - $8,000
Gible - $13,000
Skorupi - $10,000



Snivy - $10,000
Tepig - $10,000
Oshawott - $10,000
Lillipup - $7,000
Purrloin - $10,000
Blitzle - $10,000
Woobat - $6,500
Yamask - $9,000
Karrablast - $9,000
Shelmet - $9,000



Chespin - $10,000
Fennekin - $10,000
Froakie - $10,000
Goomy - $13,000


Proposed new additions:

Vanillite
Nosepass
Espurr
Trubbish
Snorunt††/Bergmite
Roggenrola

--------

* May be swapped with Scatterbug, which would throw balance for Flying-types (giving them +1 representation), but preserve generational balance

** Throws balance for Fire-types, giving them +1 representation

† May be swapped with Dwebble to preserve generational balance

†† Throws balance for Ghost-types, giving them +1 representation

Total Included: 80
Total Pokemon: 718
Percentage in Mart: 11.14%

When choosing Pokemon for the mart, I suggest that Pokemon with more evolutions be chosen over Pokemon that do not evolve. This entices newer players into battling more, making the game more appealing. In addition, factors such as the cost of additional evolution items must be factored in.

Fire-types are in an interesting situation with my proposed Mart Fix. Because there are relatively few of them compared to Grass- or Water-types, there would be no way to include more Pokemon than just the Fire starters and still preserve type balance. This is why I proposed the inclusion of Magby, because it fits well with Elekid in the scheme of things.

I would prefer the addition of Scatterbug/Snorunt over Pinsir/Bergmite (respectively) due to the greater capacity for evolution and the slight reduction in power.

Because Fossil Pokemon are included in the Underground, I propose that they all be wiped from the Pokemart. "What? That's crazy!" you say. Well, no. Not really crazy. If they're (relatively) easily obtained elsewhere, I see no point in including them in the mart. This would also increase the need for collectors to use the Underground.

This all being said and put out there, I would suggest a massive revisit to the pricing of Pokemon. Pokemon should be priced according to number of evolutions they can undergo, with an additional cost based on the BST of the final evolved form of the Pokemon.

That is all.

tl;dr: Type balance the friggin' Mart according to %, not #

 

Ok I shouldnt do this because I have a lot of homework to do, but oh well! Fuc school!

My personal main argument, along with a lot of people in the thread but I'd rather not summarize other people's opinions, has been that removing Pokemon from the Pokemart will lead to more people turning to the other areas of the URPG in order to obtain Pokemon. I believe everyone agrees this is a good thing. More stories and artwork and park runs are, almost certainly a good thing, more activity, more overall involvement in the community, etc. Positive!

An argument that was brought up about this change today was what effect would it have? People were saying, "If you remove Pokemon that no one buys from the Pokemart from the Pokemart, no one is going to write stories for them either..." The Pokemon that kept coming up was Pidgey (for whatever reason). I didn't get to stay for the end of this discussion, but I have a few things to say.

Firstly, obviously. Just because a Pokemon is available from the story section, no matter how easy it is to get, people will not write for it, need an example? Kricketot. So I'm aware of this fact. No need to remind me.

What I'm suggesting is that middle tier Pokemon (see: Elekid, Misdreavous, Nidoran (male), Vullaby, etc.) be considered for removal. These are all totally viable Pokemon, and ones that a lot of people buy from the Pokemart. These are the type of Pokemon that could be removed from the mart. I think everyone understands that in an ideal situation, we would get rid of the pseudos and eevee/togepi from the Mart because those are the best Pokemon, but it's too late for that. What I'm saying, is take out the Pokemon that are not the absolute best, but are still likable/usable.

Another thing is some people just like Pokemon. I really like Ledian, honestly it is my favorite Pokemon. If it weren't available in the Pokemart, I would've written for it.

So in light of this, I've crafted a mockup Pokemart. Gliscorman, I think you're headed in the right path, but I don't really understand why it should be based on % of the type. If we did a set number for each type, why does it matter that there would be more Water Pokemon not in the mart? I think making it % based makes it seem more like we're adhering to certain types.

One more thing. A lot of the %'s that have been thrown around in this thread are fallacies. For example, in Gliscorman's example, he says he has 11.14% of the Pokemon in the Mart, however that doesn't include the evolutionary chains of all of the Pokemon available in the Mart. That is to say, Pikachu is not included in the % of Pokemon in the Mart. So, ya a lot of those are straight up wrong, so disregard pretty much any percentage you've seen up to this post, except mine because I as counting by families of Pokemon.

Without further ado:

Spoiler

Bug (5) :
Spinarak
Shelmet
Karrablast
Joltik
Heracross

Dark (6):
Froakie
Larvitar
Skorupi
Purrloin
Deino
Eevee

Dragon (5):
Dratini
Bagon
Gible
Deino
Goomy

Electric (7):
Pichu
Mareep
Shinx
Joltik
Dedenne
Magnemite
Eevee

Fairy (7):
Togepi
Cleffa
Igglybuff
Snubbul
Dedenne
Mime Jr
Eevee

Fighting (6):
Tyrogue
Chespin
Torchic
Chimchar
Tepig
Heracross

Fire (8):
Charmander
Cyndaquil
Torchic
Chimchar
Tepig
Fennekin
Slugma
Eevee

Flying (7):
Charmander
Dratini
Togepi
Bagon
Starly
Woobat
Delbird

Grass (8):
Bulbasaur
Chikorita
Treecko
Turtwig
Snivy
Chespin
Pumpkaboo
Eevee

Ghost (5):
Shuppet
Dusclops
Snorunt
Yamask
Pumpkaboo

Ground (7):
Turtwig
Mudkip
Gible
Phanpy
Nidoran(f)
Bunnelby
Geodude

Ice (6):
Smoochum
Snorunt
Delibird
Vanillite
Spheal
Eevee

Normal (6):
Igglybuff
Meowth
Whismur
Aipom
Bunnelby
Starly

Poison (6):
Bulbasaur
Grimer
Skorupi
Spinarak
Trubbish
Nidoran(f)

Psychic (7):
Smoochum
Fennekin
Beldum
Woobat
Wynaut
Mime Jr
Eevee

Rock (6):
Larvitar
Bonsly
Roggenrola
Slugma
Aron
Geodude

Steel (6):
Piplup
Beldum
Karrablast
Aron
Klink
Magnemite

Water (8):
Squirtle
Totodile
Mudkip
Piplup
Spheal
Oshawatt
Froakie
Eevee

This means a total of 73 families split among the 6 Generations as follows (though I didn't really consider this when making the list) Also, take these numbers with some salt because I counted what generation the line was introduced:

Kanto: 18 (compared to 34 originally)
Johto: 18 (compared to 29 originally)
Hoenn: 13 (compared to 18 originally)
Sinnoh: 10 (compared to 13 originally)
Unova: 17 (compared to 23 originally)
Kalos: 11 (compared to 8 originally)

The way I approached:

First, I put all of the starters and pseudos in. That is 25 chains of Pokemon and makes 6 Grass, 6 Water, 6 Fire, 2 Steel, 1 Rock, 2 Psychic, 1 Poison, 3 Ground, 3 Flying, 4 Fighting, 5 Dragon, 2 Dark. Then, slowly I started to fill in the lists with more Pokemon, focusing mostly on multitype Pokemon and then using several solid type Pokemon to fill in the gaps. I tried to use mostly Pokemon that evolve, but I threw a couple No-Evolves in there. While some times are slightly more represented than others, on the whole there is 5-8 of each type. Dragon, Ghost, and Bug are the only types with 5, and they are all types that can easily be +1'd (Axew, Misdreavus, Pinsir repsectively), however I think these three types should be the ones with the most representation. Dragons are obviously "most powerful," Ghosts are often attained very late in the game and there aren't that many of them, and Bug are the easiest to capture through story/art.

I threw 1 non-starter for each of the starting types in there, and I purposefully picked Grass's to be the best since I think it's starting type has the least type diversity. The type I probably did the worst job on would be Ice, but only because there 1. aren't that many Ice types, and 2. are a lot of Ice types that share types with Water or are just pure Ice.

I tried really hard to make a lot of disparity of type of Pokemon that is available for each type, that is to say, I tried to take advantage of multi-type Pokemon wherever possible. There are some instances where Pokemon could be replaced without upsetting the balance, if any one particular Pokemon strikes a chord. (Aron for Nosepass is an example.) Any specific concerns with specific Pokemon should be addressed to me and I will look for the best fit I can find. Just don't throw out the entire list because you don't think Magnemite should be in the Mart.

Some other combinations I came up with but rejected:

Spoiler

Add Golett and Croagunk, remove Heracross and Nidoran(f)

Add Sandile, remove Phanpy and Purrloin

Add Voltorb and Pinsir/Shuckle, remove Joltik

Add Phantump, Remove Pumpkaboo

Whismur can be replaced with pretty much any Normal type, I just thought it was cool because of Boomburst (notably Ditto/Teddiursa)

Spheal can be replaced by Shellder/Seal

Starly can be replaced by any Normal/Flying type (it's just the best one)

I don't think this is necessary, but if people are really bothered by it, add Nidoran(m) drop Grimer and Phanpy.

One sort of unfortunate consequence is that some of the Pokemon I'd like to add to the Pokemart are Pokemon that are currently unavailable from the Pokemart (I know this sounds sort of counter-productive, but it was in order to balance types most effectively). This may lead to more initial purchases from older members than stories being crafted, which is unfortunate. However, I do believe in the long run there will be more Pokemon obtained creatively for than there are currently. Just to make it obvious, this of the list of Pokemon I'd like to add to the Pokemart (13):

Spoiler

Joltik
Magnemite
Delbird
Pumpkaboo
Snorunt
Bunnelby
Vanillite
Whismur
Trubbish
Roggenrola
Aron
Klink

I know this seems like a lot, but I think this is the best way I can balance types most efficiently for the Pokemart. If this is really a no-sell, which I understand that it may be, I would be willing to reshuffle through and attempt again. However, think about it this way: a lot of the above Pokemon are not very often creatively obtained, though they are with some frequency. I'm replacing this small list of Pokemon to be written/drawn/park'd for by a much larger list of Pokemon to be obtained through these stories. Also, important to note that the only Pokemon I've added that is above Medium difficulty is Delibird (which is sort of silly in my opinion, but another issue).

A list of the Pokemon I have removed from the mart is as follows (65):

Spoiler

Pidgey
Rattata
Sandshrew
Nidoran(m)
Zubat
Bellsprout
Doduo
Seel
Shellder
Voltorb
Exeggcute
Goldeen
Pinsir
Ditto
Lapras
Omanyte
Kabuto
Sentret
Hoothoot
Ledyba
Chincou
Hoppip
Sunkern
Wooper
Misdreavus
Pineco
Shuckle
Teddiursa
Corsola
Elekid
Magby
Poochyena
Zizagoon
Taillow
Wingull
Azurill
Plusle
Minun
Numel
Trapinch
Lileep
Anorith
Budew
Cranidos
Shieldon
Pachirisu
Buizel
Chatot
Mantyke
Patrat
Lillipup
Pansage
Pansear
Panpour
Pidove
Blitzle
Tirtouga
Archen
Ducklett
Axew
Rufflet
Vullaby
Fletchling
Tyrunt
Amaura

So in summation, ya. I think this list does a good job at attaining "type balance" while also keeping as few Pokemon as possible in the Mart. I think it also addresses Monbrey's concerns of the Pokemart Syn suggested as being too "bland." It offers diversity and also a mostly consistent approach when I was deciding on which Pokemon to use.

EDIT: I've been making small edits to the list as I see better combinations so excuse me if any of the numbers are off slightly. They should be correct as I'm editing them, but I make mistakes.

 

I'm still not sold on anything, but this is by far the best post we've had. It actually encompasses everything that's been discussed and isn't just further insistence on the same piss weak ideas and arguments. It builds on GliscorMan's, which was also a good post. I do have a few comments at the moment, but my thoughts aren't complete. Possibly more later.

I thought 5-8 Pokemon per type was a reasonable number, until I realized how boring this makes Grass/Fire/Water. With the inclusion of Starters and Eevee, they all get ONE Pokemon that doesn't fit the skeleton, and of that Grass is the only new addition. Small amount of Fire bias there I'll admit, because Magcargo is one of the shittest. AT LEAST give us Numel. Spheal I don't know enough to comment on. However on the other side of this, I can also admit that some of the best Pokemon of these types ARE the starters - Blaziken, Infernape and Mega Charizard, Greninja and Swampert, and Sceptile for example.

Dragon is similar to the above, nothing but 5 pseudos. However again, these are mostly the best of the type.

This is why the "percentage of a type" argument was made (though I'm not necessarily supporting it). Changes such as this provide huge benefits to the established and partly-established users of some types more than others. The selection of 8 Water Pokemon that have been in the Pokemart forever, 7 of which are chosen based on the skeleton criteria, offers nothing to Water users. They lose the easy access to some of the Pokemon that we're available, and already had far more to collect from the other sections. The changes to the Ghost selection however offers two good new Pokemon to Ghost users, who have FAR LESS that they have to obtain outside the Pokemart. I think Steel is in a similar sitatuion, gaining Aron, Klink and Magnemite.

The addition of Pumpkaboo bugs me a little, being one of a pair - particularly a brand new pair that hasn't been obtained much yet at all. Pokemon that have been around for generations have less of an effect being in the Pokemart than brand new ones that haven't "gone into circulation" as much yet.

Various staff were fairly adamant Bunnelby shouldn't be in the Pokemart. Personally I don't care.

I finally realized something that had been bugging me for a while, but I had no idea how to explain it. It's been said several times that removing Pokemon from the Pokemart will increase activity in the other sections, and on face value this is true.

However, using myself as an example, Camerupt, Magmortar and Talonflame are suggested for removal, which are decent Fire Pokemon I would/have used. Removing them from the Mart would probably, at some point, get 3 more creative pieces into the other sections (if I didn't already own them). But it wouldn't be me making and submitting them - as far as I'm concerned, it's just a price bump, because now I have to pay for a $20,000 TM Case instead of a mart-priced Pokemon. It places more pressure on our writers/artists not just to write Pokemon for themselves, but for other people.

This also made me realize another key point. Months after the addition of Generation 6, there are still people waiting on Honedges and Hawluchas, or looking for someone with creative talents who can obtain one for them. The other sections are SLOW, even though there IS DEMAND. I'm not saying this in a negative way - it's a simple fact that writing a story or going on a Park run or making artwork at any reasonable degree of quality takes significant time. Then for 2/3 of those it has to be assessed by another person, who writes a report detailing their thoughts and makes a decision. So after all that there's a chance you wont even GET the Pokemon.

I'm not even sure my last two points are bad things, but they definitely need to be taken into account. For non creative people, it simply means some Pokemon cost more. For all people, it makes the process of obtaining some Pokemon longer and slower. This could even be good, with people working on new submissions while waiting on others. Or it can slow the URPG down as a whole, which makes people lose interest. I've seen new players post a story or start a forum battle, only to leave if it doesn't proceed quickly enough. "More activity" has a lot more to it than people seem to be addressing.

 

Not sure if I have anything particularly helpful to say, but I did want to back up Monbreys statement about the price bump. I've been feeling the same way as that is how I get most of my non-mart Pokemon. It may increase overall activity in the sections, but I really agree that they are participated in on a person-to-person basis. Sure the possibility is always there, but generally, there are people who write and draw, and there are those, like me, that use TM cases and ask others to submit artwork / stories for them.

 

Here are the solutions I see to replace Pumpkaboo with Golett without affecting number of each type:

Replace Phanpy with any pure Grass type (Tangela, Sunkern, Cherubi, Carnivine, Pansage, Maractus, Skiddo). Pansage should be avoided because that would be weird without Pansear or Panpour.
Replace NidoranF with any Grass/Poison (Oddish, Bellsprout, Budew, Foongus). Oddish split evos into a pure Grass type. Probably the best option because having one Nidoran but not the other seems weird anyways.
Replace Bunnelby with Deerling.

These are the solutions for replacing ONLY Pumpkaboo + one other making sure to leave out fossils and leave starters/pseudos in. If you wanted to chain further out, there exist more solutions.

As for why Bunnelby is left out, the only reason I see is if someone collects Ground types and had all of them before gen 6. However, afaik the only serious Ground type collector was Winter and she gifted a lot of them.

Overall I like it though. One thing is I'm not sure if you should be accounting for split evos that share a type, which you haven't (such as Snorunt counting 2 for Ice and Tyrogue counting 3 for Fighting).

 

I don't think it was piss weak ideas and arguments. Pretty good ideas or else this thread wouldn't have come so far:banana:

I like Smores' list/contributions a lot. I can't like your posts for some reason, but I think it's a very nice mart layout and most of the selections seem pretty balanced and well thought out imo. Perhaps the thing I agree with most is how members should try and outreach their comfort zones and not be so dependent on the mart, particularly Monbrey, who supposedly heads the hugely successful Art section. The URPG is a role playing game, so you gotta join in on that kinda stuff or you'll never fit in!!!

 

I'm actually highly against Smores' new list, simply for the fact that there are so many new Pokemon that were not available in the mart beforehand that he now makes available. That, and the fact that almost all of the Pokemon Smores includes are competitively viable. The point is to offer new players a decent, slightly varied and interesting selection, not reward older players with powerful Pokemon for slightly cheaper prices.

The mart Pokemon aren't supposed to all be competitively viable, they're supposed to drive new players to get those rarer Pokemon through stories, roleplaying, and art. If they don't, pure battlers can branch out into Pokemon that they normally wouldn't try, ones that are more familiar to them for being early-game Pokemon.

I thought that was the point here, but apparently I'm mistaken.

((Also, there was some questioning of my statistics. @Elamite; I'm talking to you. My stats were accurate, especially the calculations of how many Pokemon of each type were to be included in the mart. I didn't count Mega-Evos, because that's just stupid. You're right about the 11%, it only reflects how many Pokemon can be bought in the mart instead of families. But that's not important here.))

Smores list WAY over-represents almost every single type, including Fairy, Ghost, Steel, Bug, Ice, the list goes on and on. It appears that this was considered to be unimportant. That's an incredible mistake. It makes it easier for collectors and for Gym leaders to get the Pokemon they need. If you look at my list, I specifically didn't double up on type combinations, and included many that were single-type. That's what we need here, not a collection of only the best and most diverse Pokemon in the mart.

 

Wow, down off that high horse. The Pokemon that he proposed to be added are very mediocre Pokemon to bad (sorry, I mean all are equal). Joltik, Magnemite, Delibird, Pumpkaboo, Bunnelby, Vanillite, Snorunt, Whismur, Trubbish and Aron were the new additions, although I may have missed one. His list could do with some tweaks, like perhaps cut Delibird and Heracross out for suitable replacements, but it's pretty good so far.

Regarding "over representing types", that's a pretty narrow-minded view. I think it makes a lot more sense to have equal amounts of each type, regardless of how the games usually portray, but more like our current Gym system: balanced and unbiased.

 

@Synthesis; Yes, the newly added ones are moderate. But you didn't take into account that almost every other mediocre 'mon has been removed from the mart, save for the fossils, Zubat (like what, why did that get removed?) and, Fletchling (which I agree with).

Like I said, I thought the goal was to provide a balanced mart, not one that caters to specific types more than others. The goal of % is so that it is evenly proportional. "Why proportional?" is the question I keep hearing. It's so that there's a balance. A balance that prevents certain types from being more readily available than others.

In Smores's system, the Fairy type is over-represented. The Fairy-type consists of 32 different Pokemon (including Legends, excluding Megas) and 17 families, by my counts. The ratio is simple to find. 32/718, or ~4.45% of all Pokemon are Fairy. Out of these Fairies, 15 are available in the Mart under the flat-rate method (7 families), putting 15/32 or ~46.8% of all Fairies in existence in the Mart. This is means that you can own nearly half of all of them just by using URPG currency, with no creative effort.

This isn't just unique to the Fairies. Ice and Steel are in similar situations, and the flat rate has nearly the opposite effect on Flying, Water, and Normal types.

Statistically, that's why I'm against it. I'd be willing to calculate the frequency of the other types as well, if it's required to change your minds.