Reducing Gyms

Is this transition only for those with full sets or for those who have earned badges in general?

 

Anyone who has earned a badge.

 

If we're really wanting to allow people to receive badges corresponding to the Types they've beaten and if we do a 36 Gym System, then I think it would be fair to allow them only 1 badge of said types instead of 2. So yea, if you've beaten 4 Water Gyms you're only going to get 1 badge. If you've only beaten 1 Water Gym then you're only going to get 1 badge. In this case because we can actually going round and round with this, something is better than nothing.

 

I do like your idea and the amount of thought that's been put into how it could be implemented. But that 6 month downtime for 50% of the gyms is really difficult, and it's my biggest obstacle with your idea. A big part of this discussion in this thread is about people not being able to challenge the 10 or so gyms which aren't filled, and another 10 or so with inactive leaders.

Your proposal is a cool concept for a new Gym League, from both a concept and battling aspect, but it really doesn't address that major concern - if anything it enforces it as unavoidable.

I totally understand that URPG members probably shouldn't have two gyms of the same type. But I'm not that great at defending using stuff that isn't Fire. Under this system, I'm effectively forced into not being a Gym Leader for 6 months, because my Gym gets closed. I could probably learn another type, but I definitely wouldn't be the same level of battler from the start.

Badge Transitioning - I'm really really stuck on.

• I definitely think that people who have earned old badges deserve to keep that recognition.
• I don't wish to negate all the hard work they've put in.
  • This is why I can't even remotely understand the argument for revoking someone's right to challenge the Elite 4.
  • You didn't have to get badges again if you lost to the Elite 4 under the old system. Just because a new system might be in place, that rule shouldn't changed.
• I don't agree with giving "new" badges to people based on the old ones they had earned.
• If we really want to promote a strong new level of Gym battling and really get the system running, there is nothing better for that than having all those vets wanting to earn 18/36 new badges.

This is exactly why I wrote such a huge post, trying to address every single good/bad/other idea I could and how I felt about them. There are obviously lots of ideas I'd dismiss, lots I'd incorporate, but that's the point of this discussion. To develop a good idea, not dismiss them all because of one bad one.

The 18/36 Gym argument has too many good points on both sides.

 

I'd say full equivalency is the only way to solve the badge issue.

So if you earned 4 Water Badges, you should get 4 Water Badges in the new system (even if we only use 1 or 2 gyms). It's the only fair thing to do.

This doesn't address the many other issues of the Typing League, but it will solve one of them.

 

But it that 100% fair to those trying their hardest to get all the badges but still cannot prevail? What about those that haven't earned that many and the badges they have earned are scattered around regions?

 

I'm wondering something though. If we do go in this whole transition thing and let people carry badges along, how is that gonna play out in terms of gym TMs and the like?

Also on that train of thought, I find the idea of not carrying badges over because some badges were "practically given away" heavily stupid. A badge earned is a badge earned, I don't care if it's by the worst gym leader or the best. We're still gonna have bad leaders in the future, this new system isn't gonna remove them, so only invalidating those from the past really doesn't change much. In addition, I think just invalidating all of the badges because some were from bad leaders undermines the fact that many were from great leaders and good leaders who have put a heavy imprint on how some gyms are run now. Invaliding those badges too makes a badge with a huge story behind it mean basically nothing.

 

I don't recall offhand who said it, but I don't see much of a lull in a gym challenges, at least for me. I, personally am always looking for gyms to challenge, but it's usually a problem of finding a GL with time and a ref at the same time xD (not to blame either leaders, or refs, but just stating a point). Anyway, I would think either H kim's idea, or the general two type downsize idea could work. I agree with H Kim that all badges should be transferred in some manner, as not to suddenly say "you had so many badges four minutes ago, now you have 0" @Monbrey; Brought this up about he didn't want to say that to elite four eligible battlers. I agree that any nullification of achievements for either those with full Or partial league completion would be horrid. Whichever way we choose (seasonal or 36 gyms), it looks like this will overall increase the amount of Active gym leaders. Perhaps, as someone said along the way, a role call every two months should be held, and be open for a week. If a leader knows they'll be away for the next call, they should tell their LO, and he could mark them as such, and then PM them if they're not back by when they said they would be. However, if leaders need a long absence, a Temporary gym leader could be instated if it will be a one month or so continuous absence. The normal gym leader could regain control upon their return.

Another way to possible handle absences like the one described above, would to only need 18 out of the 36 badges. Players Could get all 36 for some additional reward/opportunity or just for the $/tms if they weanted, but they would only need one of each type to actually challenge the elite 4. 18 is already twice the amount needed now from one region, so the increase itself would be harder for newer/badgeless players to attain, let alone 36.

 

I almost agree with this, except I'm currently not Elite 4 eligible, but probably have at least one badge of each type. I'd be eligible under new gyms if I got to transfer them in that fashion.

If we really want to trasition badges (which I still think isn't a great idea) I'd suggest a ratio. If you currently have 47/47 badges, you get all 18 or 36 new badges. If you have 50% of the old badges, you get 50% of the new badges.

I'd still prefer it if nobody got new badges - but yes, this means the old ones aren't very valuable. People who were good enough to earn the all the old badges would be great to have back in the battling system. A lot of them would probably love something new to earn.

Not sure what you're addressing here, but I'm guessing it's the Elite 4 rights.

I really don't understand why you think they should have their rights to challenge removed. They earned it.
If we do wipe the old system completely, the Gym League that the URPG has had for the past 10 years meaningless from the day of the new one's implementation.
It would also mean that we don't have anybody qualified to BE an Elite 4 member, as part of that requirement is to also be eligible to challenge the Elite 4.

What I would suggest isn't giving people new badges for free, but determining, per person, how many they need to earn to become E4 eligible.
Something along the lines of the new requirement being 18, person has already earned 5, so they need to earn 13 new ones. Any 13, since they won't have any new badges.

 

Monbrey, I wasn't actually addressing Elite 4 eligibility. I'm all for those who have earned the right to challenge to challenge but not over and over until they win. I was more or less referring to those who don't have a complete set. Do they get badges transferred over or are they losing their bades?

 

I think that either a ratio as Monbrey described with the type of badge obtained in that manner randomly assigned or a monetary/Pokemon equivalent of the badge is an adequate and fair compensation for the prior acquisition of badges.

Sure, I have roughly 40-50% of the current badges, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm lazy. regardless of the fact that I am

Also, I resemble this comment.

 

Monetary/Pokemon rewards for badges aren't a good idea imo.

Ratio could work maybe, but it seems messy. Maybe a general conversion would just work out. Say I had beaten Pewter, Cerulean and Vermilion Gyms, then I would get the rock, water and electric badges. Two gym leaders would mean two badges (unless just the one for two leaders), so which badge would the person get when transfering to new system? Hard to come up with any better suggestions.

 

I think theres an issue that needs to be discussed here, and that is the Idea of a Dojo league system. If we do go for 36 Gyms i dont see the need for it (well it could be cool but yeah) if we do an 18 gym league id really like to push this feature

 

If you're eligible for Elite 4, but lose to one of them, are you saying they should have to get another 8 badges? That rule has never, ever been in place. And I really don't think it's fair.

As for people who don't have a complete set, no matter how we choose to restructure gyms, that's definitely going to have to be looked at.

 

Randomly assigning type badges would remove any problems regarding people choosing badges for their "strategic merit". Say I had 23/47 badges. That's roughly 50%. So, I'd get 9/18 or 18/36 badges, randomly assigned without (more than 2 in the case of 36 Gyms) duplicates.

I feel that this would work the best in that matter, and be the fairest. This way, it's up to chance which type badges are needed to complete the set. To quote a certain movie character: "Nothing's fairer than chance".

 

Yeah, but at the same time, say you were never able to beat say, any of the Water type gym leaders before the change in the system, try as you might. Then you roll one of the Water badges, nullifying your need to ever beat one of the Water gyms in the new system. I don't think that's a fair way to reach E4 eligibility. If this is to work in any manner (which I'm not really confident of the existence of an equitable solution), I think that is certainly the wrong way to go. I'd be more predisposed toward it relating to the actual badges you have. Perhaps randomly selected from a pool of types from gyms you've already beaten?

Basically: Sure, it removes the, "strategic merit," but doesn't remove the possibility of, "strategic chance".

 

Well, there was one other idea we've considered before. Might as well lay it out there.


Condensed League System

Instead of including every league in the URPG, we only include a certain number of leagues. For example, if we wanted only three leagues, not including the Orange Islands, we'd reduce the number of gyms from 45 to 29.

The regions of Kanto, Johto, and Kalos will give us coverage of every type (save Dark).

Bug - 2
Electric - 2
Fighting - 2
Grass - 2
Ice - 2
Psychic - 2
Rock - 2
Normal - 1
Fire - 1
Water - 1
Flying - 1
Poison - 1
Ground - 1
Dragon - 1
Ghost - 1
Steel - 1
Fairy - 1
Dark - 0

If we add in a Dark Gym to the Orange Islands, that would give us 30 gyms total.

It's not a perfect solution, but does retain the regional leagues while reducing gym size. It also retains coverage of all types.

The Elite 4 rules will need to be modified to account for the fact that some badges will no longer be obtainable. I'd make challenging the Elite 4 based on total number of badges rather than regional badge completions. Old badges will still count towards this total as work and time was spent earning them.

Yes, some people will lose their gyms and that's unfortunate. But this is perhaps the easiest of the three or four suggestions to implement.



Note that I still prefer the Seasonal League over this idea as that still retains all of the gyms regardless.

In regards to badge transitions for the Type League idea, I still think it needs to be a one-for-one equivalency. No randomization. No ratio. Each badge deserves to be honored because of how they were earned.

 

I've only vaguely read most of the thread, but I 100% agree with TEDs post and that'd be my ideal way to do it. You could probably separate them into 4 leagues of 9 or 6 leagues of 6 and make it so that you complete a league to gain eligibility. Give all current leaders of types with two or less gyms a new gym of that type, make any electric/water/rock/whatever leaders fight it out for the two spots and then open applications for new gyms such as dark and fairy.

 

To be honest, not a huge fan of this system at all. It lowers Gym count, true, but why give two Gyms to only seven types and leave the rest at one? I could see an argument for it if the ones that had more than one had an extremely wide variety of Mons, but Water and Flying only have one- the two types that have the most Mons.

If there's only going to be a single badge for a type, I'm gunning towards the Gym Trainer system to be added to it. If that is shut down as well, could there be another system implemented instead for monotypes? A lot of people (myself included) have worked hard for our gym teams and will get shut down due to the 1/limit. Plus, what happens to Rentals if people are pushed out?

 

Basically, it's like this:

Any system which involves current Gym closures (even temporary closures like the Seasonal League) is horrible, -excepting- the new 36 Gym system because that will at least offer the vast majority of current Gym Leaders a new home.

What we need to do, instead of chasing each other around in circles, is agree on the problems with the current system and then design a solution that solves most (if not all) of those problems. You know, engineer a solution instead of brute forcing one.