Reducing Gyms

Ya, but is there any real reason not to make it capless? Like you're just listing reasons that you wouldn't use more Pokemon, but that doesn't really mean that someone else wouldn't. There are scenarios where Magmortar is more useful than Delphox: maybe you'll be facing a gyarados that has been baton-passed a defense boost and your Rotom-H has been KO'd. This is obviously a silly example, but why should you have to potentially lose when you have the Pokemon to use that is of the correct type with the needed EMs, but you can't send it?

Plus, saying that removing the cap will cause leaders to add more bad Pokemon to their gym isn't really your decision is it? Leaders are allowed to run their gyms however they like. If I wanted to switch out Accelgor, Galvantula, Scolipede, Venomoth, Yanmega for Butterfree, Beautifly, Ariados, Beedrill, Ledian I have ever right to don't I? (Also, lololol I have so many bugs) I think it should be the leader's decision to run as many Pokemon as they want and if it turns out not worth it they can just remove the Pokemon from their lineups.

 

This brings us right back around to wildcards/number of Pokemon available to a lineup.

As mentioned at some point, Dragon gets 12 fully evolved Pokemon. Water gets over 50.

Not going to change it to capless, and as much as you probably don't like hearing it put this bluntly, I wouldn't waste your time arguing for it.

Argue for an expansion to 15 if you want. That I'll consider based on discussion.

 

All right guys! I'm going back to Sand veil/Brightpowder Haxxing! This time with a Golem, so it has Study too!

But in all seriousness, I get WTP's argument about WildCards, but that doesn't mean that I like it. Things are going to get incredibly difficult for me, but that's just a challenge I'll have to accept as life.

An expansion for 15 would be great for Rock. I'll go into detail later.

 

I'm going for Snow Cloak abuse for nostalgic reasons only. And because fuck you.

 

And I wouldn't have it any other way

 

Sand veil and Bright powder ahh the reminder of taking out a nape with a cacturne

 

I'm slow at getting around to post things I meant to. Sue me.

As far as badge transfer, how about the idea of keeping the number of badges you have in a league count towards E4 requirement for that league, but no longer count as being from any particular gym? Just a middle ground idea I had between reset and keeping progress. Perhaps when you beat the gym that badge represents, it doesn't add to your count, but replaces the old one or something, idk.

Also, I'd be in favor of a dynamic system that can expand as we get more people qualified to be gym leaders. I think we need to stop the "Join URPG and get a gym within a week" idea, but I also think there will come a time when this number of gyms won't be sufficient. so I think we should come up with a system that can expand while still having reasonable Elite Four requirements as the size adjusts itself. I'd like a system where we have tons of gyms and a certain way to determine Elite Four requirement that isn't impacted by a lot of those being empty.

As for WCs/lineup expansions, I agree with WTP. As much as people say Dragonite in Water is so broken, it's also a million times more logical than Gliscor in Rock. There should be equality in WC selection (or I guess you could just do away with them). I also think that there really should be a lineup expansion, and I would argue for capless, because I mean you can't use more than usually 3-6 each battle, and as someone pointed out having more can actually HURT you in DPPt, while BARELY doing anything Revo because (at least back when I ran Revo in Dragon Dojo) it's generally the same Pokémon every single time, with occasionally swaps of one for another. Yes, I own a Flying gym, which is the third most common type. But also, a large portion of the Flying types just plain suck. I would never use a Pidgeot in a gym battle no matter how well EM'd it was. Delibird's got a tiny niche (Rapid Spin) that as of gen 6 is covered by about 3/4 of my lineup (thanks to Defog boost) meaning Delibird is really only good for Ice STAB and would be a huge liability 99% of the times it got Roared out. And so on and so forth. Even though I could put all 21 or so of my Flying types in my gym, honestly several of them would just hurt me more than help me. By using the "A gym leader should be good with their type" argument, you should allow them to use as much of their type as they want to.

@ChainReaction01: You forgot Shedinja as Ghost's Dark "counter" (since you counted Surskit, you should count it), meaning it's only Fire, Fighting, and Fairy (weird, those non-Flying F types got screwed it seems).

 

Honestly, there is no argument for 15 per lineup compared to 12 per lineup. They are both arbitrary numbers and while 15 may suit me in my Bug better than 12 would, it could easily not be everything a Water gym leader wants to run. And then what's the point? I could probably come up with a number that would fit my specific needs, but that wouldn't mean it was sufficient for another leader. I think the fact that you're considering 15 means you already know that more Pokemon is a good idea, but I'm not going to argue for 15 because I have no reason to justify that over anything else. If nothing else, the fact that you're removing a huge asset (Wildcard) from a lot of gyms means you should already consider giving a lineup. But you can't expect me to have a reason to defend a number you picked out of a hat over another number that was randomly picked out of a hat.

EDIT: Also dragon has 13, just saying

 

Dragon i think would potentially be allowed to count Charizard and Ampharos as options since both megas become part dragon type

Honestly i think this would be ok

I think 15 is a good number because if striaton is ever e introduced as a gym later down the line (which if URPG grows is a potential possibility) then we will need to remember that its line up needs to be evenly distributed amongst 3 types and that only works as at multiples of three 9, 12, 15, 18 - since an increase seems to be what is called for and 18 seems excessive 15 is really the only appropriate number to go to

 

Just another note on wildcards: why can't we discriminate based on type? Arguably this happened with letting dragons have two wildcards. If the argument is some types are naturally worse than others and you have to deal with that, why did this happen to dragon gyms? I mean, they were in a desperate position with so few FE mons available but this is kinda hypocritical in a way. Idk, just more discussion on it.

 

<<Insert Monbrey's Ampharos picture. I mean it, you can edit it in if you want because I couldn't find it>>

On a more serious note, I honestly think things like that SHOULD be allowed. It is (or can be) of that type. Also, here's a little analysis of Dragon types weaknesses:

Spoiler

Ice:
Double weak: Dragonite, Flygon, Altaria, Salamence, Garchomp, Noivern
Not weak: Kingdra
Double weak to Freeze Dry: Dragonite, Kingdra, Flygon, Altaria, Salamence, Garchomp, Noivern
Not weak to Freeze Dry: ø

Dragon:
Double weak: ø
Not weak: ø

Fairy:
Double weak: Hydreigon
Not weak: Dragalge (or however its spelled)

No double weakness: Haxorus, Druddigon, Tyrantrum, Dragalge, Goodra

As was said earlier, it's more about using your type than making gyms balanced, so perhaps that's irrelevant, but Charizard is FINALLY the Dragon it should have been five generations ago, and NOW it gets the boot? (laughs at how illogical it is)

On another note, I MEAN IT GUYS, SHEDINJA TOTALLY KILLS DARK TYPES, IT'S NOT LIKE IT GETS OHKO'D BY LITERALLY ANY DARK TYPE MOVE.

 

Monbrey has already said that justification wouldn't even be allowed for WCs, let alone regular Gym Pokemon. Personally I think that should only be allowed if they're -forced- to use the Mega Evolution, and we can't force people to do things.

It's just a pity that it dies to Dark-type Pokemon anyway, what with the huge prevalence of Aerial Ace and Rock Slide and Fire Punch/Flamethrower.

 

Not quite. I don't think more Pokemon is a good idea, I'd rather leave it at 12. What I also think that people will whine about wanting more, so 15 is the next logically nice round number to go to from 12.

As I advised you earlier, you're wasting your time arguing for a capless lineup.

Or we could just scrap that rule.

I'd be fine giving wildcards to those gyms that need it, and leaving others without. But that makes everyone cry about equality in unequal gyms. Water has >50 FE's but if it doesn't get a wildcard it's obviously getting worse treatment than Dragon with 13 (thanks Smores)

Analyzing their weaknesses doesn't justify a wildcard.
Pokemon in my lineup not weak to Water: ø
inb4 you mention Mega Charizard X - I'm talking currently and how I've been defending Fire for the past 3 years.
Better immediately give Fire a wildcard to cover that - it doesn't work that way.

Under the current system Charizard is already a wildcard, so you have no point there. Under a new system where there would be no wildcards, you don't have a point there either.
It's pretty much guaranteed in as a wildcard, or guaranteed out because there's no wildcards.
Unless you mean that even without wildcards, Pokemon that Mega Evolve into the type should be allowed, in which case, no, Dragons cant have special treatment.

 

There is a very simple answer to all of these issues. A couple of years ago I contemplated a question: "Why Gym Leader?". The question had perplexed me for a while. Does one want to become a gym leader for the various trials and tribulations? Is it to form a closer bond to one's beloved Pokemon? Is it for monetary gain? Knowing such an answer could settle all affairs having to do with Gyms in the URPG. But I just couldn't figure it out. I lost countless hours of sleep over the seemingly simple inquiry. At last, I posited the question to the masses. I expected their efforts would be just as futile as mine. How could there be a consensus? After posting the question, I leaned back on my chair and looked towards the ceiling, expecting hours before even the first attempt at a solution would be presented. However, much to my surprise, a response came in less than a minute! And soon the same response by another, and then again the same response! Finally I knew. What was the answer? The chicks. And guess what. Monbrey has known the whole time! And yet he has not even mentioned chicks once in this thread. What does this mean regarding wildcards and gym lineup limit?

It's quite elementary. In order to maximize time for chicks: lower the number of gym Pokemon to 2 and disallow wildcards to allow the gym leader to lose as easily as possible. This way a gym leader can finish a battle in less than 10 minutes and have time for maximum chickage.

I leave you with a gym montage I created. I worked very hard on this as I assorted the clips and searched for the perfect song, a rare song you probably have never heard in an AMV. [video=youtube;UTHkI0JNKrY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTHkI0JNKrY[/video]

 

Read it. Hated it. Wanted to delete it.​

 

havent read the whole conversation but this is my opinion on the matter
I think there should be 1 gym for each type. There shouldn't be any wildcards because a gym leader specializes in a specific type, not just a type and some pokemon to cover it's weaknesses. And for the dojo/gym trainer dealio i think they should be combined. If you want to practice a certain type then you would become a gym trainer. Challengers to the gym COULD challenge the gym trainers if they wanted to. Complete choice. Another thing, if you ask me we should have ONE league. OUR league. Not Kanto's. Not Johto's. None of the others. We're not those regions, we're the URPG. Members should challenge the URPG league. Oh yeah if you wanted to become gym leader of a gym you would have to be a gym trainer in that gym first.

 

@Monbrey; Stop ignoring me ignoring you

@Shock3600; It's been very thoroughly argued that 18 is just too few, not to mention the poll in this thread that won 21-2 for 36 over 18 (I would've voted for 36 if I had voted in time too, I think several people didn't vote because at least at the time, they didn't like either).

EDIT: In case it's not clear, the same logic that applies to capless applies to an expansion of any size. And when I said the thing about Charizard in the other post, I did mean it would be a logical generalization to all types. But whatever.

 

Which is why I'm against an expansion. 12 is a good number for a gym lineup.

As far as I know there are only 6 Mega Evolutions that change type.
Mega Mewtwo X gains Fighting, but Legendary so doesn't matter for Gym discussion.
Mega Charizard X gains Dragon, loses Flying
Mega Ampharos gains Dragon
Mega Pinsir gains Flying
Mega Gyarados gains Dark, loses Flying
Mega Aggron loses Rock

I can KINDA see the logic behind these being wildcards. But I don't support wildcards, so it doesn't really matter.

 

Why not just force them to enter a battle as the Mega Evolution, assuming the leader has the proper item, and not allow them to use helds? I don't see why they need to be counted as Wildcards. If I remember correctly, Mega Evolutions don't require a turn to evolve in battle, right?