Why can't you use the new calc on the ref test?

That really shouldn't be too tough regardless... In fact, it would take just as much time, if not less with the new calc, to find out where either party when wrong by making sure you had the same thing in the calc.

"Did you remember that Reflect is in play?"

"Ah, I forgot to add that, lemme try it again... Yeah, that was it, I'm getting the same % now."

I don't see that being a huge puzzler to anyone with an average IQ... and like I said above, they just ask if they're missing anything.

I just looked over a list of the abilities. An overwhelming majority of them do nothing when placed in the calc.

 

Adaptability, Air Lock, Blaze, Cloud Nine, Download, Dry Skin, Filter, Flash Fire, Guts, Heatproof, Huge Power, Hustle, Iron Fist, Levitate, Magic Guard, Marvel Scale, Minus, Mold Breaker, Motor Drive, Normalize, Overgrow, Plus, Pure Power, Reckless, Rivalry, Scrappy, Sniper, Solid Rock, Super Luck, Swarm, Technician, Thick Fat, Tinted Lens, Torrent, Unaware, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, Wonder Guard

So actually, that's quite a number. Obviously, not all of them are test-worthy. Still, I won't know if he truly know how to do whatever it is if I'm letting someone use the new calc.

 

How would they be guaranteed to know what the problem was without either:

1. Being able to see the other persons calc

2. Talking through exactly what should be placed in the calc

3. Working through the different possibilities on the calc

As far as abilities go: Super Luck shouldn't be on this list, that effects the crit ratio.
Not counting that, that leaves 37 abilities, roughly 31% of all abilities, and as you said, quite a few not being testworthy.

EDIT: If they both don't know the reason, then tell me, what else could be the problem?

 

Idk what you really mean by this last question - are you saying what other problems are there if neither of them know?

 

How can the ref already know where the battler messed up if he doesn't know what the battler placed into the calc? That makes no sense, refs aren't all knowing beings nor can they see the future... to some extent :sweat:

Are you telling me that calc rolls crits for you?

Also, he said the problem was MOSTLY abilities. Yet a minority of them are even affected by the calc and he even went as far to say that a majority of those few are even test worthy.

EDIT: Ah, I see, I never even noticed the AUTO CH setting before... What I don't see is the problem.

The only loss I see for them doing a Critical hit on the new calc is not knowing what it does when THEY are in battle and not reffing. If I'm not mistaken, there is a question that covers this on the ref quiz anyway...

 

I don't think I've seen Sota giving points other than 'It's stupid to do math'.

 

The last question on the quiz features a Froslass with Reflect up getting hit with a CH Night Slash from a Gliscor...

 

Many people actually use the new calc to do the ref quiz.

Still, I prefer to mix stat modifiers and such with Critical Hits.

 

I'm just curious, why isn't the new calc also banned on the quiz?

 

Look, I think that this is the point: The new calc has not been recognized by the head ref. People still use it anyway. As this is the internet, I think that unless an experienced ref catches the few hiccups in the new calcs calculations, some refs will just get away with it.

I personally don't like the new calc. It does too much for you, and thus, my have more constraints programmed in it. This means that the calc will be more likely to do things you don't want it to do, and you may not even realize it until its too late because you haven't used the old calc, which teaches you what to actually look for. Just as working on your own car teaches you what small things to look for instead of sending it to the mechanic every time something goes pop, using the old calc teaches you what to look for in the calculations.

 

I agree with you on this. Having played around with both the calculators it seems that the old one is much more reliable and honestly easier to use. I still think that calculators distract from learning how the math works, but if you are going to use one it seems like it would be better for you to use one that is as simple as the math you are doing. You wouldn't buy a scientific calculator to use for something that only needs basic math and you certainly wouldn't buy a graphing calculator just to add and subtract either. The new calculator seems like it is the "graphing calculator" in this scenario. It is a waste to use it when you can use something similar and be sure of a correct answer because you aren't distracted by extra buttons you would probably never need to use. Call it slower if you want, but the old calculator seems to be a lot better as long as you remember to take factors like light screen and critical hit and weather into effect. All you have to do is remember, or look up, what they do and then adjust accordingly.

 

In my personal opinion, I think it's a bad idea to use the new calc on ref tests anyway, even without the ban. There's just so much clutter on the new calc that it's easy to forget to change everything that needs to be in any given turn. Plus you need to know what the calc is actually doing for you, and what it's not, which requires more thinking than just using your computer's calculator program to say, halve the damage done in a particular situation. Or whatever. If you can't keep the information (items, special effects, etc.) straight on your own, the new calc is just going to make it worse. I rarely use it.

That doesn't really answer, the question, I know. But using the new calc on ref tests really doesn't help unless you're extremely organized and know the calc well.

 

Most people (Pe2k) already know that there's a .1% difference in damage calculations from old calc to new. Also it's not banned from reffing, just from ref tests.

 

I remember a move being a 5% or so difference, can't recall which one though :3

 

That seems quite unlikely - there wouldn't be able to be a specific move having a 5% difference, since you manually enter the power, type, and class into the calc, so the calc can't distinguish between moves.

 

Look, the new calculater is banned. End of story, end of discussion. If you are caught using it on a ref test, you'll fail and face a possible ban.

Drop it and get over it.

That is all.

 

Two things.

I think this is an appeal to tradition, and the new calc should be allowed.

I also think ST should drop his superiority complex.

 

Having now done the ref test I think that I'm qualified to comment on this issue. The new ref calc makes things too easy for the person being tested, allowing them to automate too many of the factors.

The ref test is about proving that you can referee, and thus that you know the theory. If you allow a calc that can automate the damage increase/decrease from weather, items, etc, it would allow someone who doesn't necessarily understand the full theory behind the game.

For example when I first took the test I made a couple of rounding errors when recalculating BP with weather or item effects (not my only mistake, but a contributory factor). If using the new calc then I wouldn't have made those errors, but I would also never have been corrected on how to round properly for the purposes of URPG, and so could have made plenty of mistakes along those lines later on.

As a final note, ST is the head referee and sets the standards for ref testing. If he wants to make an arbitrary decision, then he has the right to do so. I'm sorry if this seems unpopular, but I don't think that regular players have the right to question him when he is deciding the standards that he feels referees should be able to conform to. If the other refs have complaints, then that's a different story, by passing the test they have earnt the right to comment on the issue (not that you'll necessarily believe me, but this was also my line of thinking before becomming a ref, without the experience I didn't have the right to say that he was wrong).

 

WTP has to share you with me.

 

I agree with your answer, but not necessarily with your reasoning. ST, as the head referee, does have the final say on any issue in the discussion; however, as battlers, I think we have a right not to have that head referee make arbitrary decisions without due deliberation.

That said, it's not exactly arbitrary because the reasoning behind it has been stated many times; it's the same reason graphing calculators weren't allowed in quite a few of my math classes. With something that will do all the math for you, it doesn't prove you know the theories, just that you know the calculator.