Administration problems in the URPG

Perhaps that did get more then they should have in the time and effort used, but the fact that they lost there things without getting anything at all for the effort used means it was a punishment, since the time and effort they used simply disappeared without any compensation. Also even if they did get a small compensation it would still be a punishment, since a reward being taken away is still a punishment. It's like buying something that's buy one for full price get one free, and then them giving you the free one, but taking it back afterwards because they mispriced the first one and you ended up paying less then full price. It's their fault not the buyers. They would almost 100% of the time simply let it go.

 

Punishment: noun, the infliction of an imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense

The people in question did nothing wrong, which automatically excludes it from being a punishment. The recall of Pokémon was not a slap on the wrist. It was an attempt to eliminate a problem created by a system. Yes, it was obnoxious, and yes, people lost time and effort. However, they were also refunded all of the money they spent on the Park and those Pokémon. Essentially, it was set back to the way it was prior to the Park failure: People had the money they had previously, and did not have the Pokémon they gained. The recall was a return to status quo, not a punishment. A punishment entails, inherently, the creation of a negative consequence to an action, so that the person being punished is worse off than they were prior to the committing of an act. That's why threats of punishment work on small children and non-recidivist criminals. If it had been a punishment, the URPG staff would have taken away money or rights that were earned independently of the faulty Park runs.

EDIT: AT LEAST HAVE THE GOOD GRACES TO MARK YOUR CHANGES AS EDITS WHEN YOU'RE ARGUING WITH PEOPLE. GOSH.

The National Park is not a "reward" system. It's based on the principle of "earning what you get." Because people, according to the evaluation of the Park system, did not actually earn their Pokémon, the Pokémon were recalled and the money the people spent to earn those Pokémon was returned. They could attempt to actually earn the Pokémon according to the altered system with that money, if they so wished.

And they didn't get a "small compensation." It wasn't compensation. Compensation is a reward given to someone for loss, injury, or suffering--again according to my dictionary. The money was not a reward to pacify people who were losing their Pokémon. It was returned to people who spent it on something that they didn't get to keep. There was no rewarding of anything in the entire process. People did not get to keep what they did not earn; that which they did earn, the money, was returned to them.

That metaphor is needlessly complex to the point of being a red herring. National Park never promised anything free. It said, You pay this money and do this; we give you that. In the evaluation of the Park, it was found that Park administration allowed people to not perform the "do this" part at a level that enables satisfactory fair exchange. As such, it removed the participants' obligations to "do this," returned the money from the "pay this," and took back the "give that" so that everything was as is before. No harm was done negatively or positively because everything returned to the way it was before. In your example, people are paying unfairly for something and losing it without being given their initial payment back.

What could work better is this: A clerk tells you something is marked five dollars. You buy it for five dollars. You are later called by the store and told that the thing was marked five hundred dollars, and that the clerk has made a mistake. They tell you that you can return it for all your money back. No harm, no foul. You don't get the thing, but you don't lose your money, either. At least they're not making you pay for the full thing. They say that if you still want the thing, you can purchase it for five hundred dollars, but they, as an enterprising business, can not afford to let a mistake made by the clerk negatively impact their business. Yes, the clerk is a moron. Yes, it's the establishment's fault, not yours. But also, the store has to fix the mistake. It's fair to no one to let it go unchecked.

This also contradicts commerce laws, but it fits the situation better. xD

 

WHY CAN'T WE ALL GET ALONG LIKE LITTLE KIDS DO

 

ST said if we talked while he wasn't reffing he would KO us. This is bullshit. Discuss.

 

Why is he still a ref/official?

 

He and Harry had a fling awhile back... I'm surprised you don't know about it.

(It's actually because when he's around, he DOES GOOD WORK for URPG.)

 

A silent FFA. A ref can dream, I guess.

 

Is Anna a third wheel then?

 

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?


+ST is just a dick, anybody getting anything suspended for anything should get their shit back if ST didn't get suspended for the same thing. And the worst thing about him is that he thinks he's super smart and can't see anything from any point of view but his. Or whatever, ignore the last thing I said but the point is that he has an immature attitude. ST? More like SV...SANDY VAG. LOL. I'M MATURE.

The entire URPG Mod Board should be public!!1 Why can't we know your thought processes when you're deciding bans and promotions?!

Two posts in one week from me? You guys must be so happy. :unworthy:

 

I've never had a problem with an official abusing their power, or overstepping their bounds, in regards to me; I've rarely seen anything where it has happened, since I missed most of the furor over the national park revamp. I've never had anyone with any sort of position, or authority, be specifically rude to me; and the times I've seen it I've generally chalked up to people having bad days.

As to ST, he doesn't seem to really like anyone, least of all Near, but I don't think I've seen him do anything that was really questionable. And ultimately, people have a psuedo-banhammer for a make-believe homage to a children's video game. Whoo.

I'm with Nemo on the point that enumerating their powers would limit their ability to react to, or resolve, various situations. If a situation comes up that wasn't foreseen (we just redid the constitution for my college club not long ago, this came up a fair bit) do we want people to have the authority to immediately take action to stop a perceived abuse? Or for them to have to post and debate their legitimacy while the abuse goes on unchecked? And if it's not actually an abuse at all, and they're stopped, a round of apologies tends to make things okay again.

I'm also against us being able to see the mod forums, as I understand the need to have a place to discuss promotions, censures, bans, or implementations where they don't have to constantly be second guessed by every peon in the system. And with the large-ish population of mature moderators, officials, etc. I have every confidence they self-moderate as well.

 

f da police

 

LOL you guys all know Near most likely did this to piss everyone off? And you all fell for it? If this is a serious issue (which I doubt), I agree with Problem #1. I think everyone should be kept up to date with URPG going ons, not just the higher ups. We don't want a virtual cold war. God forbid. :b

 

I don't think Near did this to piss everyone off. However, I DO think you are a idiot silly face for thinking that. :uhoh:

 

I'm in agreement that there is a divide between URPG members and the staff boards, and a lot of the stuff we discuss there can really be made public. If that doesn't happen though, feel free to talk to me about what's going on if staff, and if you want I can post your suggestions or something.

 

f my nemesis

`_`

 

I don't have a lot of time for big dramatic posts cuz I g2g in like 2 mins, but I will say I have no problems letting people know what's going on in the Mod board as long as it's not something of a sensitive nature.

That should make it obvious I agree a lot of what we Mods and Officials discuss could really be made public lol. I see no harm in making the majority of the Mod board visible to everyone, just make it so only Mods and Officials can post in it, and of course we still need a hidden board somewhere to discuss the more touchy topics.

 

I'd actually really like to comment on Near's second comment, mostly because it's something I've been saying for years.

The biggest issue I have with the URPG system is the lack of coherence between what's allowed and what is in the rules, and this ambiguous term "abuse."

First situation, a while back a certain member was battling a lot with mons with the ability pickup in order to get the free item in mass quantity. No where in the rules is this said to be wrong, but he received a warning for being "abusive." Now instead of putting that anyone who abused pickup would get in trouble, the URPG staff just went on their jolly way. Honestly, anyone can see the ease with which some new member could walk into the URPG with a pickup mon and be "abusive." Another situation, I don't know how long ago, but in the URPG chat I posted a scenario where a person could make a lot of money really quickly with basic battles. It involved people buying geodudes at mass numbers and battling with them with a profit ensured. At the end of the discussion, Jr poked in to say anyone who did this would be banned. However, those less perceptive might not notice that the very maker of this thread has been doing just that. In the foreseeing of a gift station, he bought a large quantity of cheap basics, gaining the profit of evolving them, and then just dumping them on whoever would take them. This resulted in quite the profit. However, Near wasn't banned, and honestly the mods have no right to ban him. He could claim ignorance easily and get away with nothing more than warning.

Anyway, on to my second point-

I'll give you a situation of URPG "abuse." Everyone knows about the big Park scandal where several members were forced to give back their mons, "beacuse they abused the system." There was a lot of arguing and whatnot but the system was edited and eventually people just said, fuck it, it's pokemon. However, what people don't seem to notice is that several months ago another member's behavior was deemed so "abusive" that a new rule was put in place. This "abuse" was by none other than ST, who reffed an extreme amount of FFAs. I won't mention how hypocritical this is based on the hundreds of Pe2k Trainer Court threads where he bashed the current ffa system, oh wait I just did. Anyway back to my point, ST was not forced to return the massive sums of money he received from the FFAs, nor were any of the participants. Now this just doesn't make sense.

This gray area of the URPG is has caused nearly every scandal, and I feel the blame should fall on the URPG moderating staff and their fear of limiting their own power.

I'd be happy to argue with people over aim about this if this thread is closed, as these often are.

 

Marshy I actually lost ~60k from those basics. Did it for the record :X

 

Oh well then you were just ignorant about it :x, you could've easily made money if you had tactically bought your Pokemon

 

Rules are meant to be interpreted with a certain discretion. Everything doesn't need to be spelled out for someone to not be "abusive." Obviously finding a flaw in the system and milking it to your advantage is possible, but doing it just has the flaw changed. For example, if you continually go to a charity and receive money and you're not in need, you're abusing the system. Is it stated exactly in the law that you can't do that? No, it's not. Will you be punished in some form? Probably.

Length of time in URPG is considered when deciding punishments. If somebody like you or Near abused a loophole, you would get punished because you know that's wrong. I doubt a new member would be able to find such a loophole, and even if they did we would take that into consideration.

The FFA rule was put in place because FFAs were almost the only battle occuring. It's not my fault some people are hypocritical. There's also a difference between actually reffing a battle and getting a complex/demanding mon with very little effort. People were submitting complete shit as their RP Posts and being rewarded with extreme prizes. The FFAs however, were legitimately reffed, therefore the money was paid. The following rule was put into effect to encourage people to do normal battles.

The scandals occurred because people tried to push the system too far. URPG relies on an honor code, which you're obviously not following by exploiting it.