Mega Clause

Ah, I understand regarding the Legend Clause, but I suppose that's another discussion for another place, as you've said.

Not sure if we ever got anywhere deciding what to limit, though. General consensus is that Mega-Gengar and Mega-Kangaskhan are severely centralizing and will probably be limited somehow, but as far as I know, we discussed Zard-X and Mega-Luc for a while on the AIM Blast Chats and didn't really come to an opinion. A more formal council is possible, yes, but it seems kind of complicated and I'm not sure if it would be any more or less messy than a blanket Mega-ban. I could go either way, though.

I feel you, but at the same time, that's kind of true for all tiers. People probably want to use other quirky things like Kecleon or Swellow or Arbok but have to face standard Blaziken, Jolteon, and Tyranitar instead, and that's rough for the people who want to use cool things. More power to the hipsters for using what they love, and double-more power to them when they win, but I don't think that should be the only reason we should nitpick a Mega Clause.

Or, uh, different example, because people keep bringing it up: Electric Gyms might run G/S/C rules so that they don't get crushed by Sand Stream TTar + Sand Rush Excadrill or get their weather changed or whatever reason they want to run G/S/C, and that's cool for them, but that means they don't get to use their Levitate Rotom or be immune to paralysis. There are pros and cons to using every clause, and in the case of a potential Mega Clause, the cons, regretfully, include shelving some of the cooler, less-OP megas. It'd still be an optional clause, though, and that seems much less harsh than flat-out banning.

I didn't mean to sound condescending, and I apologize if I did. I was trying, and probably failing, to express my sheer and utter disbelief that Chandelure was even being considered on the same tier as Mega-Kangaskhan or Mega-Gengar (which, for the record, in URPG stats has 50 more SpA and 100 more Speed than Chandy, and the lack of Fire-STAB is compensated with a much more diverse movepool in every situation except against a monotype team).

 

Option 1. If you don't want to limit them, you just leave the clause off. Doesn't hurt anyone by doing that.

 

I think you missed the new ability on that one. Wouldn't be surprised if it got dumped in with them (at least with Protean)

Anyways, back on the main topic, I had a discussion with Winter about this on Skype:

[8/7/14 12:32:05 PM] WinterVines: imo part of what makes urpg great is that everything is allowed
[8/7/14 12:32:17 PM] WinterVines: i think if we try too hard to do ranks and things like smogon and take them seriously, its going to be less fun
[8/7/14 12:32:29 PM] Ash K.: I agree
[8/7/14 12:32:32 PM] WinterVines: i mean i like having tiers for use in like randoms or other gentlemans agreements, even some tourneys
[8/7/14 12:32:40 PM] WinterVines: but i dont want that to be a real rule that people can abuse all the time
[8/7/14 12:32:49 PM] WinterVines: for example, a lot of newbies pick some "OP" things
[8/7/14 12:32:58 PM] WinterVines: like start out with gengar, buy blaziken, dragonite, and greninja
[8/7/14 12:33:13 PM] WinterVines: so if clauses like that are on/opponent sets them on, that really limits them even further
[8/7/14 12:33:30 PM] WinterVines: and that makes starting out even tougher whichi s one of the things those same peopel are concerned about

It was also discussed that everything is counterable and voting just to ban it is asking for an easy button.

And for everyone who keeps saying "optional clause hurts nothing", remember that gym leaders (and possibly certain other position holders or even LD challengers if it becomes optional there) can FORCE it upon their opponent. By doing a Mega Clause, you're give Dark/whatever else is screwed by a mega an easy way out while leaving Fighting/whatever else is screwed by a non-mega to not have such an easy way out. Personally, I am in favor of doing nothing, I don't think any such clause is needed any more than a Red Clause (banning anything the Pokédex calls red) or a Fire Clause (banning all Fire types). Even "Ubers" Clause (for lack of a better name) I don't think we need because it seems like just asking for an easy way out, not to mention the ridiculous amount of arguments that will break out over what qualifies and what doesn't (Chandelure instantly comes to mind, some saying it's super-ridiculously broken and others laughing at even considering it).

 

I would also prefer to do nothing, but I still believe than an "optional clause hurts nothing". Yeah, of course a gym leader can force it on you. They can also force you to battle in unfavourable weather, on a particular terrain, without two of the same Pokemon, without two of the same item (if they let you use items at all), without a legend, with only four moves, without abilities, without a physical/special split based on individual moves, without having more than one Pokemon asleep or frozen... I think you get my point here.

Most of all though, the gym leader has the ability to force their opponent to make the first send in a DPPt battle. That right there is far worse than having your Mega Pokemon restricted.

Overall the discussion on this has been pretty good, and I think the Mega Clause is the best option here. I don't think it at all resolves the issue it was brought up to address (Mega Gengar and Mega Kangaskhan) because if you leave the clause off these Pokemon are still broken, and with it on you take out 25 other Megas as collateral. But I don't see why the Mega Clause can't be added.