Mega Clause

Yeah, I agree with this. Point I was making originally is that just banning Megas doesnt directly address the issue and causes more harm (banning all megas) than good (just the problem ones). Then you/others brought up the fact that the Legend Clause doesn't address it's relevant issue properly either.

However it's now worth taking into consideration, do we want to make that significant step and put normal Pokemon (like Blaziken and Dragonite) in a group with the problematic Megas and Legends, while allowing less dangerous Megas and Legends into the battling?

Needs to be discussed, as this would be a fairly significant change to URPG battling, which has long held readily available Pokemon like these as the best ones to have on your team while options like Mega Gengar and Mega Kangaskhan are harder to obtain.

 

I'll prob post something longer later but Dragonite, Greninja or Togekiss are by no means comparable to MGar, MMawile, Mzard, Mluc or MKhan. Blaziken is the only thing really comparable to them, bar some of the obviously OP Legends like Arceus.

Any standard e4 or LD or even 6v6 team should have no problem with Dragonite or Togekiss provided you aren't an idiot. Greninja is a little different but there are still Pokemon that hard-wall it if you really can't predict around it. Blaziken is something you have to always bear in mind and is a lot of the reason why things like Dragonite and Swampert are used because so few things can live any +2 move, phase and do significant damage to it.

MegaKhan has huge bulk, good speed and much higher offense than Greninja. Gargantuan movepool, a 70 BP Fighting move that gives it +2 Attack, Drain Punch healing a ton almost always, ridiculously powerful Sucker Punch, Icy Wind/Rock Tomb/Bulldoze halving opponent's speed essentially, everything giving double the chance to par or frz or burn or drop. Then moves like Roar, Circle Throw, Knock Off, Yawn and Wish. But the real killer is Seismic Toss. You can safely spam this move that deals 200 HP to everything because you are bulky af. You aren't beating this thing with STAB Close Combats and being KO'd in return more often than not. It is uncompetitive because it can come in against at least 4 Pokemon on the opponent's team and KO or sweep from there.

Mega Gengar is essentially Scarf ST Chandelure without the limitations of Trick, Perish Song, the ability to KO and outspeed essentially anything slower than it because they can't switch and it has a huge strong movepool. It can't set up like Chande, but it doesn't need to when it can consistently KO and corner the foe again and again. Very arguably uncompetitive.

If there were an Ubers, I wouldn't put Blaziken in it because despite being centralising and still OP as anything, it is and always has been manageable.

 

Oh, yes of course. Because Mega Aerodactyl or Mega Aggron can totally counter Mega Mawile. Or Blaziken, Kangaskhan, and Gengar.

Megas have legendary power. This was expressly stated as their intention. I'm totally fine with someone bringing a Legendary to my Gym. That means they earned it, and they're using it to its full ability. I'm ok with getting curbstomped by that. What I don't think is ok is the fact that literally anyone with 20k can buy a Megastone, and therefore a Legendary-clase Pokemon, and bring it into my Gym to curbstomp me with.

There's already a Legendary clause, yeah? I don't see the problem with making a Megas clause. Same vein here.

 

All I am saying is that you're complaining over nothing. You just want to find a way to make your gym easier to defend (and yes I know it's a damn hard gym to defend). My problem is with everyone complaining that something is OP and then wanting to ban it. And I don't care if I don't battle often, I know all about these Pokemon and how OP they are. Also even if I did battle regularly, I would still say the same. I am all for it being a clause and all if that is what you guys want, but I think it's a really dumb idea, especially to limit them in gyms. I don't even think there should be a legend clause either in gyms or e4. Maybe tourneys and regular battles sure, but that's it.

you're okay with someone using a Legendary to its full potential and beating you with it, but not a mega Pokemon to it's full potential... okay! Sure, whatever you want ~_~.

 

I really hate the idea of a Shadow Tag clause or an OP Mega clause or banning specific Pokemon. Megas are pretty similar to legends quite often. Having the option to not battle against legends is pretty similar to having the option to not battle against Mevos, provided you don't use them just like you can't use legends with the legend clause.

Sorry, but you really don't get it.

Also Gliscorman, saying you're okay getting curbstomped by someone with a legend rather than a mega because they deserved it is literally the worst battling mentality. That's accepting defeat before it even starts, just like how all the people wanting to battle disappear as soon as I or Ash ask does anyone want to battle. When did people stop trying to improve?

Buuuut getting curbstomped by Megas or legends is pretty comparable. A clause is pretty damn reasonable.

 

Please Syn, clarify for me what it is that I am not getting. I'd really love to know!

 

No matter what ends up happening here, I really dislike the idea of banning every Mega. It just doesn't make sense. Mega Kanga and Mega Gengar are one thing, but Mega Houndoom and Mega Blastoise do not deserve to be lumped in with them. They're great, yes, but not by any means overpowered. I think that if the general consensus is "We need to control the use of OP Pokemon," then we need to focus on what is OP without limiting things that aren't, and without leaving out things that are. Otherwise, I'd rather just leave things as they are.

 

To be frank what does it matter if all megas will be banned under the mega clause? Sure it sucks you won't be able to use your mega houndoom or your mega abomasnow but what people are forgetting is that if this mega clause does happen, it will be off by default, which means it will always be off for important battles like tourneys and e4 and your average battle should one member want it off.

You will literally only be affected by this if

- both you and your opponent choose to have it on (everyones happy woo)
- If LD includes it in the rules (in which you are given the option to change it btw)
- A gym leader sets it as mandatory in their gym rules (tough luck its their choice as gym leader)

so essentially unless its in gym you will never be forced to use the clause, it is an option, no one is taking the megas away permanently

 

I never said it wasn't an option. Having a Clause that limits things that dont need to be limited is unnecessary. I would want to be able to ban mega kanga without banning mega houndoom etc. Banning all megas together under the clause is just as bad as having "turn helds off" as being the only way to limit them. There are plenty of cool and underused strategies with the more benign megas that dont deserve to be banned just because a gym leader is afraid of mega kanga. In fact, it was brought up before that some gym leaders themselves only have access to some megas that are so-so. How is it fair to make them choose between getting swept by something overpowered, and limiting their own already limited strategies?

 

I think that is my main problem. I wasn't forgetting it, I just don't think it should be on in gyms and e4 (which is what will happen when/if this becomes a thing). I get what you're saying though. I was going to mention this earlier, you guys want this optional but it won't really work if both people don't want it on (which is why I said earlier you could just easily have both players agree to not use them if both don't want them).

 

I actually found a topic in the Trainers Court that was both entertaining and interesting. It was so entertaining that I'd like to give my own thoughts about it.

Yes! Some of the Mega's are overpowering. Yes, Mega Gengar is a pain to deal with with Shadow Tag. Mega Kanga is a beast with it's Parental Bond. Of course Mega Blaziken just keeps its speed boost but is still very much overpowering. However, it's that what the item clause and the fact that you are can only use ONE Mega per battle is for? And wasn't this brought up before we implemented Gen 6? Wasn't it Monbrey and Harry that had stated that if you don't want Mega's to be used against you to play with no items on? Yea sure there are many people that would prefer to play with items on as part of their strategy, however, it's also part of the other persons strategy to use Mega's to counter some of the items used.

Sure there are a few ways to go about this. We can make a list of what Mega's should be banned under this clause but if you're going to do that then we should also make a list of other Pokemon that need to be banned based on their effects and their strengths. Like Blaziken, Dragonite and Greninja. While we're at it, let's just use teams of Magikarp because a list of Ubers and OP Pokemon would be pretty long and pretty much takes away from the game.

Syn had made the comment in a previous post and I've heard it a lot of the last year and that was "get better". The better phrase to use is "you wont' improve if you don't try." You can't say that and then turn around and say "let's ban (or make a clause) for all things hard to overcome." But how can one improve in certain situations if they're never in them?

Since we're on the subject of clauses and now I'm just being silly about it...How about we make an Item clause that bans the use of certain items? Weakness Policy and Red Card can really mess up strategies.

Off be default or not allowing there to be a Mega Clause opens up doors for other clauses. The use of Mega's depends on if there's an item clause or not and if someone wishes to not fight against a Mega then it should be done so by a gentlemen's agreement just like any other rule that isn't actually listed as a main rule.

To be completely honest, I don't care one way or another. It's not really going to effect me because I know I'm not going to use the clause IF it is made a rule; optional or not. But yes, I did want to give my two cents about it because frankly I do think it's a retarded idea. So you can just chalk this up as a crazy old man ranting and raving =P

 

Assuming it's optional, I don't see why not. It's really just a blend of Legend and Helds Off Clause, and there's nothing stopping someone from not using it. The only issue I could see would be its implementation into the battling league (I could see it usable in gyms but not sure about E4), but other than that, it seems to be another valid option that mirrors the Legend Clause.

 

Do we have an X and Y battle mode yet? Could this discussion possibly be made into that? Whether it be a limit on particular abilities, items, moves, or mons. I think it could be interesting to have it as a particular battle mode when the other ones are much more popular and commonplace.

 

Neon, would you be suggesting a specific battle mode (call it X/Y for the sake of a name) where we restrict a particular tier of Pokemon, items, combinations etc in the same way that Smogon does?

 

Yeah, pretty much. That way it wouldn't interfere with anything else, we could limit it from being used in high-tier battles where players have the mons and moves to plan around overpowered things, and it would make both sides happy. Those who are against these new "dominant" things have a way to battle with each other without having to deal with these things, and those who don't think it is necessary never even have to think about it.

Granted, that is also providing somebody is willing to do the work and come up with exactly what should be banned and what shouldn't.

 

You must not have been paying attention. People won't stop coming up with things that should and shouldn't be banned.

 

I get that the community would be the major driving part behind the creation of this list, but the issue comes with where we would decide to cut things off. What is deemed not powerful enough to take out of battle? Can we really just arbitrarily say that one particular item or ability is the line by which others should be judged? It's something that would require actual work to be put in to figure out what is the actual limit. There does still have to be a point where we tell people "that's not overpowered, you're just not approaching it right".

Also, I guess what could be another side effect would be what this could turn into. Every single new generation of Pokemon releases we have a new battle mode defined by the in game battle changes. That's the issue here. This wouldn't be focusing on actual in game engine changes, this would branch out into a real competitive tiering for the URPG. I know in theory this sounds cool, but it's only going to get worse from here on out. If we go with this, there will probably be more debates like this thread on what should go in what tier. As well, no one is ever going to be perfectly happy with the tiering. It makes this game more like the smogon community where it is more focused on competitive battling and not actual fun.

Those are just my thoughts on the matter. I like the idea of creating a new battle style to represent the new games and what they did for battling, but I'm not sure if I like the slippery slope changes like these could bring.

 

Well, I'm not sure if the method applies here but on Smogon the method they use is if something is centralizing (make everything geared to supporting / killing / checking / etc. one Pokemon which I can't see being too useful here since unlike there, you have to work to get some of the "better" mons), or if something is deemed uncompetitive (makes for too much hax, makes everything come down to dice, etc. which again I don't see much work here).

 

Well, Smogon use Councils of people who actually know what's going on so...

Anyway, this thread is really getting off topic.

 

I don't see how my opinion and ideas are off topic </3

The biggest opposition to a mega clause is the fact that it needlessly locks out interesting mega Pokemon that aren't centralizing, while leaving open stupidly strong regular Pokemon that are. I was trying to find a middle ground, while also providing a new battle experience representative of our current state of battle affairs.

I'm just trying to help make everyone happy ='(