Reffing FAQ

What am I, a tree? ._.

Also, I thought we knew this already...?

 

The 'Life Orb' item setting in the calculator calcs Life Orb incorrectly (only by ~1HP, but every HP counts).

Life Orb (B/W) - Smogon University

The key part is bolded. Normal damage implies the output from using the attack without a LO, NOT BP.

Hypothetical situation:
Starmie vs Gallade. Starmie @ Life Orb, Gallade @ nothing relevant

Starmie used Hydro Pump.

Way #1 of reffing it (WRONG)
120 * 1.3 = 156

Put into calc: 156BP, Water, Special

Gallade's HP = 51.17% (174HP)

Way #2 of reffing it (SUPPOSEDLY CODED CORRECTLY, BUT WRONG)
Set 'Life Orb' as Starmie's item
Put into calc: 120BP, Water, Special

Gallade's HP = 51.17% (174HP)

Way #3 of reffing it (RIGHT)
Put into the calc: 120BP, Water, Special
Attack Gallade.

Damage output = 129

129 * 1.3 = 167.7 ==> 167

Put -167 into the Damage/Recovery box
Click -HP

Gallade's HP = 50.88% (173HP)

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Idk if this is just a missing 'floor' function, but yeah. It's only a matter of time before this causes a row.

 

Just use the test calc URPG Reffing Calculator
If you can't do a few turns on the test calc you don't deserve to be a ref.

afaik URPG has always healed with draining moves on a Sub, regardless of what Smogon says. SMOGON ISN'T PERFECT!
Also, why only mention Pidge and me?

Did you try other examples? It might just be that with Life Orb you don't round in between or something.

 

Sorry, I was too lazy to look up the exact way to spell your name.

And I've been told on a few occasions (as well as looking it up on Smogon and other places) that you do not receive health back from damaging a sub with a draining move, including my Budget Tourney (few weeks ago?) match that Pidge reffed.

 

Because switching calcs is such a convenient thing to have to do. :/

Farfetch'd VS Gurdurr (2 mons chosen at random by spamming my keyboard)

Farfetch'd uses Wing Attack

BP * 1.3 = 58.28%
'Life Orb' setting = 58.28%
Manual = 58.28%

Interesting. I guess it's worth noting here that The damage output (120) * 1.3 actually has an integer, so no rounding is required.

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Sableye VS Hydreigon

Sableye used Shadow Punch

BP * 1.3 = 87.62%
'Life Orb' setting = 87.62%
Manual = 88.14%

Now what's interesting is that doing this manually creates a situation where LESS damage is done, opposed to MORE damage in the Starmie vs Gallade situation.

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Eelektrik vs Bastiodon

Eelektrik used Charge Beam

BP * 1.3 = 83.02%
'Life Orb' setting = 83.02%
Manual = 83.02%

Interestingly, damage output * 1.3 WASN'T an integer in this case.

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Seriously, idk how it's coded (tried looking, but it's mostly gobbledegook to me), but it seems to vary depending on the situation, which is never good :s

 

You could probably calm down a bit about this...

Its fine, honestly I was more intrigued to find out your reasoning than I was bothered by that...

Here in URPG, we live and die by that calc. I don't see any reason for this to change that or even change the calc from its present state. It is not only a fairly insignificant discrepancy, but also quite subjective. Who's to say which damage is incorrect?

 

Well, the correct way to ref Life Orb is to multiply the damage output by 1.3. So, if that's not how the calc is coded, then it's wrong. Nothing subjective about it at all.

 

Didn't you just get done saying that you don't understand the coding? ._.

When I mentioned it was subjective, I was essentially asking, "How do you know your damage calculation is correct?". I'll have you know that the calculator is coded to correctly handle Life Orb. Lets look at the damage formula really quick.

Damage Formula = (((((((Level × 2 ÷ 5) + 2) × BasePower × [Sp]Atk ÷ 50) ÷ [Sp]Def) × Mod1) + 2) ×
CH × Mod2 × R ÷ 100) × STAB × Type1 × Type2 × Mod3)

Now, I'm assuming you were using Smogon's explanation of how Life Orb works. It says that it increases damage by 1.3x . This can be somewhat misleading, seeing as Life Orb is actually input for Mod2. Give that a try.

 

derpwut

Ok, I get the point there. The point is that Mod2 is a mashup of things and gets manipulated before STAB, etc... so that's why it's different ok.

But I do have to ask, why does 'CH * Mod2 * R' get divided by 100? I'm not familiar with the formula at all, so meh.

 

This isn't hugely important, but all refs should know anyway.

Slaking's Truant and Archeops's Defeatist abilities are not removed/negated by GSC rules. That is, Slaking is still forced to waste a turn, and Archeops will still be crippled at 50%.

 

Cool update broham. Now if you don't mind, let me go win LD and claim Regigigas, then battle someone with it using GSC rules. kthx.

EDIT: Rule updated. Thanks broham.

 

When rolling for Critical hits and attack effects, do you roll for Critical hits first or the effects first?

 

It would better to roll for crits first imo, because the extra damage might knock out the other Pokemon and would not need the attack effect

 

In this video, the Critical Hit message appears before the burn infliction: PBR: Just Epic. - UU Friend Battle 19 VS Monarchsftw - Wailord's self destruction annihilates. - YouTube

Skip to 6:17. It's PBR so it may be outdated, compared to BW. In most situations, it won't matter, however.

 

And so, Encore fails on a move that failed from Disable

 

Sheer Force
Power of attacks by bearer with an additional effect is multiplied by 1.3. No additional effects of attacks by the bearer can occur. Recoil, user stat penalties, increased critical hit ratio, perfect accuracy, and variable-power attacks are primary effects and so moves with these effects are not boosted by Sheer Force. Secondary effects include Shell Bell and Life Orb for the bearer and Red Card and Eject Button for the non-bearer. Color change also does not trigger.

Perhaps this needs some para-phrasing?

From what I know (iirc), Life Orb recoil is only negated if the move that is used is being boosted by Sheer Force. That means that if a Feraligatr with Sheer Force and Life Orb uses a move like Surf, it will receive the Life Orb boost but recoil will still happen as usual. The description saying secondary effects include Life Orb for the bearer is misleading. UNLESS IT WORKS THE OTHER WAY ROUND

 

That's correct. Encore makes a distinction between moves that executed but failed, and moves that executed successfully but didn't work.
For example, a Disabled move was attempted and execution fails. Can not be encored.
However when a move is Protected against, technically the execution was successful however none of the effects occurred. This successful execution CAN be Encored.

If someone could test the following sleeping conditions, I'd appreciate it:

Pokemon A uses move.
Pokemon B uses Spore.

Pokemon A attempts move (not Sleep Talk/Snore), but sleeps.
Pokemon B uses Encore.

That's correct.
"If (and only if) a move is boosted by the effect of Sheer Force, it will no longer trigger effects that activate after attacking. This includes the effects of Eject Button, Shell Bell, and Red Card, as well as the Ability Color Change. If an item has two effects, only the effect(s) that activate after attacking will be negated. Therefore, if a Pokémon holds a Life Orb, it will gain the passive damage boost (because it is not activated after the attack) but the recoil effect afterward will be ignored. "
Source: Sheer Force (ability) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Ill update the Refpedia to reflect this. I also have a question though, as I couldn't find any definitive answers. Does Safeguard block Ghost-type Curse, and if so, does the Ghost Pokemon still take 50% damage?

 

I don't think so, seeing as Safeguard only blocks the primary status conditions and confusion.

 

If Stealth Rocks are on the field and a Ditto with Imposter comes in, do Stealth Rocks damage before or after the transformation?

J/w, because it could matter, if you came in against a Charizard or something.

 

Entry hazards happen before ability activates, as demonstrated in this battle: PokeMoshPit Battle #424: pokeaimMD vs Sucker4Jessica [5th Gen Dual Commentary] - YouTube
Politoed dies to entry hazards, so drizzle doesn't activate. Imposter would work the same I would think.