The Championship: A contraversial issue has appeared.

I couldn't agree more.

okay!

____________________________________________________________________​

Fantastic, we can all agree. Now lets discuss the matter of a certain title and the rules regarding it.

The rules are, if a Champion is defeated, they lose their title and thats that. But what happens when there is a draw?
Well, the rules are vague about it, but I would assume that they're the same as the ones for Legend Defender and the same as the Nintendo cartridges.
The win is defaulted to the defender.

So I got a question. What do you think we should do about the way we handled our battles for the championship irresponsibly?

Well, I came across a technicality in our championship battle and I know that you're a strong advocate of following the rules. Right?

Not you my dear Pidge, its just that I've become aware of some unclarity in the rules.
It appears that nothing was ever mentioned in them about draws ever occuring.
So it seems that I made up a decision at the time of our battles, that was wrong to begin with. I let you rechallenge me without you going back and re-defeating the Elites as you should have.
I made a mistake....

I KNOW! MY BAD DUDE, GEEZE. GIMME A BREAK!

Yeah, thus we should go correct our wrongs Pidge.
You should go battle the Elites and rechallenge me for the title because we need to fix this issue.

As for the "championship" battles we've illegitimately had, I'm more than willing to take off the extra money that came with them.

I mean all thats really been affected by this are your battle with ST, my rematch & second rematch with you, and the battles I've had as an Elite.
This is a small issue that seems like it needs to be fixed.
Since ST was the only one majorly affected by our mistakes, I say he be given another chance at the title.
As for everyone that defeated me in E4, well it doesn't make much of a difference. They were skilled enough to beat me, and I simply replaced you when you beat me the day after we tied. But prior to that, I defeated you, so not too much of an impact in that sector.

The one aother issue that would have to be dealt with is the pokemon you recieved and the money you spent on giving it EMs. There's a simple solution for that. In the case you do beat me in a rematch, then you keep it. If you lose, then you get a full refund for all the money you spent on it. This seems fair.[/QUOTE]

So yeah, lets go back and make things right Pidge. What do you say?

 

post above: desperation

 

Considering this happened a year ago...

No.

 

o u 2 r gewd at deleting posts

Now instead of wasting time doing that, go actually be productive and fix the rules you are so bent on following.

 

At the very least, the rules should be clarified @[email protected]

 

Oh I didn't see Juniors post yesterday.

1. Are you an idiot?
This was clearly meant with humor, which was the whole point of the quotes.
(In case this question also went over your head, it was a rhetorical.)

2. Even if this was a real debate, YOU of all people can't be using time as a basis for an argument -__-
Go finish your battle factory match that's had two weeks to be completed you moron.

 

And here's The Janitor to save the rules... again.

The right to challenge the Champion is begotten by defeating the E4. This privilege is a one-time deal. Like in the games, if you lose or draw in the Champ battle, you have to redo the entire E4. So to be more accurate, defeating the E4 gives you a ticket to challenge the Champion to a fight once - not dependent on the eventual result. If you win, you're the new Champ, if you lose or draw you lost that ticket and have to retake the E4 and get your ticket again.

As for the resolution of the draw: I have no knowledge at this time of the exact circumstances of the draw, but I'm assuming it's not an explode/self-destruct crap loophole that is forced under certain game rules. To my knowledge those still constitute a loss to whoever set up the bomb. However, if there has been a legitimate draw, it is by default a forfeit to both contestants as to the winnings available. Basically, you get something when you win - you being the champ or the challenger - aside from the monetary benefits of having the fight. A draw results in an even split of the money as per the rules, and like gym battles - no winning related to the battle to the challenger and no loss of position or prestige to the champion. In laymen terms, you have not beaten the champion if you draw, so you won't be getting anything associated to a win like the title of Champion.

This is as clear cut as it can get. If this really was a draw, the challenger shouldn't have gotten any prizes related to actually beating a Champion, nor should the Champion at that time had to relinquish his/her position to the challenger. This also means the challenger can not rechallenge the Champion without having to defeat ALL of the E4 again.

Precedence has been set for the improperly granted benefits to be kept after having been had for a lengthy number of time, assuming that these benefits have been received legally to the best of their knowledge, without any premeditated notions of wrongdoing on the part of the beneficiary AND that the beneficiary has already put effort and resources into further enhancing said improperly granted benefits. Basically, since the challenger got the mons on the assumption that he had rightfully earned them, has afterwards pumped them full of TMs, EMs and whatnots, and is currently in possession of them for over 1 year, he should not lose them even after discovery, since there seems to be no basis for any malicious intent or willful misconduct.

Basically, the title gets reset to the one holding it pre-challenge. Those who've gained anything out of it up to this point, keep those gains, and we continue forward from here on out with the understanding that it will be business as usual from here on out.

And the mess has been cleaned.
Q.E.D.

 

Xali made a funny.

 

I really did intend on this being a humorous way to bring up the subject.
I know that too long an amount of time has passed to actually go back and change everything.

Thanks DU.

Also if anyone cares to see what this whole party is about here ya go:

Le Infamous Tie
Le Infamous battle 1 day after

 

Due to me actually reading the log of the battle in question, it appears that there has been another mistake made.

Pidge's Alakazam used Psychic to KO, but then got KO'd himself through the effects of Light Orb. Since there was no Self-KO clause, we cannot go to that to ascertain the outcome. However, it seems that due to his opponent getting KO'd before the recoil should be calced, the fight ended before the recoil would have hit, making Pidg the actual winner.

Any evidence able to be shown contrary to the above is welcome, but as it stands atm, Pidg was for all intents and purposes the rightful Champion after that match.

 

I forgot my popcorn :/

 

we should ask head of battles

 

This post made me giggle

 

I tested this out on Diamond. My Life Orb wielding Atk+6 Scyther at 22/271 HP was in the process of an amazing solo E4 run. All that stood in my way was Aaron's stupid Beautifly! Mwahaha, Wing Attack will knock this thing out. Wait.. what? Scyther died too!? NOOOO. I blacked out D: I gotta start over!!

In all seriousness, I tested this situation out on Diamond. Me and the E4 Member, Aaron, were both down to our final Pokemon. My Scyther was at about 8-9% HP. I KO'd his final Pokemon, and then I myself was KO'd from LO recoil damage, causing me to black out. The game has a self KO clause built in, you can't turn it off like we do with sleep and freeze clauses and whatnot. We want to be as much like the games as possible, well there you go. Tested straight from Diamond. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. If you don't believe me, test it yourself.

 

I think that's less a "Self-KO clause" and more of the fact you wouldn't be able to continue anyways, so the battle ends before you can claim victory.

That being said, it seems Life Orb recoil and such occurs effectively simultaneously with the attack, which means that the damage is done before the match is called. If this leads to neither side able to continue, this would result in a draw or, in the case of a self-KO clause that included Life Orb or other recoils (the only Self KO clauses I can find only have Explosion, Selfdestruct, Perish Song, and Destiny Bond listed, and I assume Final Gambit would fit in this though I haven't seen any made post Gen-V's release), the attacker would lose.

And... that bit of information is honestly the most I have gotten out of this thread. Imma go off and do something now I think.

 

Well Ataro I think was head ref at the time; you can ask him if you want.

Session Start (DoIPutNameHere:sniperXpwnage): Sat Aug 07 14:24:20 2010 -0500
[14:25] Zoa: me and TO's champ battle ended in a tie
[14:26] Zoa: now he wants to challenge me to LD battle
[14:26] Zoa: do i get to battle him as champ first
[14:26] Zoa: or have to do LD battle first
[14:26] sniperXpwnage: i think this sort of stuff is more up to either of your decision :s
[14:26] Zoa: in a tie, would you say it calls for an immediate redo
[14:26] Zoa: or as soon as possible
[14:27] sniperXpwnage: id say LD first out of courtesy
[14:27] sniperXpwnage: asap
[14:28] Zoa: so you agree it should be done asap
[14:28] Zoa: in the event of a tie
[14:28] Zoa: of a battle like champ
[14:28] sniperXpwnage: yea
[14:32] Zoa: can one of the LD rules set by the defender be gameboy
[14:32] sniperXpwnage: yea
Session Close (sniperXpwnage): Sat Aug 07 15:03:44 2010 -0500

 

Regardless of the ruling here, we can't really just turn back the clock an entire year. We made a mistake and its really too late to rectify the problem. I think we should just focus on a current change/clarification of the rules. No point in worrying about that battle at this point.

 

Okay, in the event of a draw you can just re challenge like what happened.

P.S. in a cartridge wi-fi battle, the game tells you its a draw in the case of Life Orb double KO. In the normal game story line, your character 'blacks out' because you can't walk around in the Pokemon world with 0% on all your Pokemon. Also as you probably already know, not everything reflects the game's league system. For example, in the URPG you don't have to beat all the Elite 4 in a row without losing, unless you want it to be that way...

 

So LO is something different from regular recoil? On Smogon it says: Introduction To Competitive Pokemon (D/P) - Smogon University

Self KO Clause
If both players have only one Pokemon left, moves which KO both the user and the opponent are not allowed (e.g. Explosion, Destiny Bond). If recoil damage would cause a tie, Self KO Clause does not activate, and the player who last attacked is the winner.

So does that mean just recoil from say Flare Blitz, or is Life Orb included in that? I thought I'd seen a youtube wifi battle where the last attacker won despite killing themselves with the last move, but I couldn't find it before I headed off to work. And I guess this may have changed for BW.

 

Well, due to things having happened a year ago, retconning everything up until now is kinda stupid. Current champ stays champ.
But for historical purposes, my point that pidg was the legitimate winner after that battle, since there was no tie to speak of, still holds true.

As for prizes gained, like I said before, they're kept, since returning them would be an unfair punishment for something that happened in good faith.