"Secrecy" of the Staff Board

A FFA chat? That makes everything better!

Newsflash: I wasn't there. There will have been people other than me that weren't there.

However, thank you for proving my point that nothing bad would come of being informed. Pidge told people about the expansion, and I'm guessing he told them TPW was the possible candidate. They went over and "spammed" TPW with it, but oh look, it seems the mods went ahead with it anyway. So, tell me again how this was so detrimental to the expansion? Because, as mods have said themselves, the only thing halting progress at the moment is the leaking.

@ChainReaction01 (mentioning so that you actually check) I posted what you could do to help out. You've just pegged everything down to being unnecessary, when I've given you links to other people, in plain text, saying they think that "staff board" issues should be more public.

Monbrey, I'm sick of linking the thread from Dec '10, so I'm not going to do so again, but seeing as this issue has been brought up many a time before, obviously something is going wrong every time.

And ok, ban me and LS to prove your authority. Me and LS have done nothing wrong, so I'd love to see your reasoning for it. I mean, flaunting power is a very responsible, mod-like thing to do, amirite?

 

No, what's going wrong is that the mods are privately discussing stuff which should be public. Y'know, the entire point of the thread. And considering this comes up usually every time a big decision is made, then that brings us back to obviously the mods are doing something wrong.

And LS's point was that for some people, they just think "Whatever, mods are right, anyone who opposes them is obviously wrong". Considering a couple of people have given me a response to that effect, he's got a point.

 

Great, occasionally is a much better word.
But again, I don't believe that EVERYTHING regarding the expansion took place since the beginning of last week. Surely there had to be at least an idea of opening a discussion several weeks, if not months, before today.

I personally am saying that actually being open instead of simply talking about it would be cool. So like, you didn't have to get into super specifics. When you initially began to discuss in the mod boards, you could've posted something in the accesible forums for all the members. I mean something along the lines of "We're finally considering expansion, and will begin discusing it amongst ourselves. We will let you know of any further information we when we feel the time is appropriate"

That's not too revealing at all and it let's those who actually care about new happenings be in the know. You guys as officials claim to be busy with stuff and I take you on your word for it, but y'know, it appears more credible when even a hint is sent our way. I'm not saying to release all your info, I trust the officials have the collective ability to draw a fine line between what can and cannot be made public. Clearly you guys can, because as you have admitted, it would not have been a bad idea to say that expansion was already beyond its "on the table" stage.

So again, walk the walk, don't just talk it. ie: Make simple announcements, don't just say you will and not end up doing it.
I think thats what LS and MK are trying to get at.

 

Never said that... I just think that you guys are not as above and beyond as the rest of us as you make yourselves sound. You're just another member. Sure, you're given a shiny name and get a few things to be in charge of. At this point, you're really not arguing anything anymore. Now, you're just forcing your power on me.

 

Thread going in circles.

I'm guessing the mods realized they made an oopsie the moment the troll got fed, and this whole ordeal blew up in the first place. Then comes the traditional verbal debate involving fancy insults and repetitive arguments. No one wins internet fights...ever. I do wish MK had waited to vocalize his disapproval until after the leak issue had been resolved, but to be honest, he seems to only be getting belittled; which, understandably, is only making him more annoyed. Using authority as leverage for your argument only makes the member angrier. And, most-likely lose respect entirely - even if your words are right.

Yeah, MK, you kind of asked for it with the heated baiting in your post, but meh.

Wish people knew how to swallow their pride, and let it go after all the points had been made. But I suppose the internet is too coveted a prize to lose.

I'm assuming the staff will do everything possible to avoid a similar issue like this one from arising in the future, there's really no need to keep scrutinizing them for it when they have already agreed to make the effort to do so..

 

The battle was logged at 10:15pm on a weekday. In other words, I'd have been gone. Believe me, had I been there, I would remember being told. And so, that brings us full circle.

What you're telling me is that I can't suggest stuff. I suggested bringing back refs rolling HP. Sorry that I'm just not the sort of person who'll lay down and accept "No." without reasoning. You might have noticed that, after DU's post, I dropped it.

Two things is not "complaining about everything". That's not even exaggeration-worthy. If you can bring up more arguments that I've created just 'for the hell of it', then fine, but until then, stop making me out to be some miserable old git who just goes everywhere, killing small kittens and sucking all joyfulness out of the world. People keep saying "Mods just want was is best for URPG" - oh, and I don't?

Just because the majority says something, doesn't make it right, especially when that is your only reason for keeping it that way. The majority used to think being gay was wrong. The majority used to think black people were lower than white people. The majority used to think women were a lesser sex than men. See the pattern yet?

Thing is, they always say it, but it never happens. Which is why I want to see proof before I let it go.

 

You're painting a very tyrannical picture of the staff that is really quite unrealistic.

 

I'm on my way into Uni and quite frankly cbf trying to decipher / find the text you're talking about, PichuBoy. If you want to IM/PM/VM me with a way I can make you feel like the Staff is being less secretive, I will try my best to help you out. Otherwise, I'm just ignoring this thread, because it's the product of an incredibly vocal minority. 95% of the other URPGers don't have a problem with the way we do things, and I'm fine with that.

Also, we wouldn't ban you or LS for having an opinion. That's just silly.

Okay, now I'm seriously gone. Have fun in your pointless discussion.

 

1. I did read it before posting opinions about it.

2. Like I said, not the place, so I'm not commenting further in this thread.

3. Why some people and not others? Who chooses the people who get to know? Or is this something else I'm not allowed to ask?

4. Regardless, he tried to use his experience as staff as a way of saying "I know better, thus your argument is inavlid". The 'venomous rhetoric' was pretty much to keep that point out of the thread, since it helps no one.

5. I have not 'failed to understand'. I have acknowledged it in posts before when people have mentioned it. My point is that when there IS something that's worth us knowing, we should know.

6. I've been asking it throughout.

7. That was more aimed at people like SLC who keep complaining about this thread. Don't like it, don't read it.

 

@LS the Door Mat

For someone who accuses me of just forcing power on you, maybe you shouldn't just be posting just for the sake of rebelling. I started out discussing the point at hand openly, because MK moved it to the Trainer's Court and brought it up appropriately. You however seem only to be here for the sake of arguing. Unless you have valid points that genuinely contribute, I won't be addressing anything else you say.

@PichuBoy

You want to see proof of what exactly? An update/report thread? What you're basically saying is that you refuse to stop arguing until you get what you wanted, which is no less arrogant than you can accuse us for saying no to it. Should I go and make a thread right now stating that the staff board isn't being used at all at the moment? That's the current update. I'd also like to run a banner contest soon to help start up the Art Forum idea. But that's not really being planned yet either.

Currently the only topic I can possibly think of that the staff are dealing with right now that could be discussed with the members is... this.

I'm backing out of this too. Erosion will get through this brick wall quicker than banging my head against it will.

 

First of all, concerning the TE incident, this IS the place to discuss that, because you referenced it. Second, you posted, and I quote, "I'm a mod, I know better, stop bitching." Now, how could that be Stinky's opinion if he isn't a mod? If someone uses that argument, ignore it. That was really just a very bitter way of starting a thread. Creating conflict is no way to get something like this done.

About us not asking you. It wasn't like we targeted certain individuals, we just would occasionally ask questions in [URPG]. You just didn't happen to be in online at times when we did this. Feel free to ask us if anything is going on that would concern you.

Anyway, this thread is becoming rather heated. The silliest part of that is that we all agree that the staff could be more open and that it requires effort on both sides, the staff to periodically keep the public informed and the public's part to ask questions. So lets just end this argument here.

*Thread Locked*

P.S. If this ends up being some MASSIVE OFFENSE to you personally, contact me and we'll work it out.

 

The Staff Board has been in URPG since it pretty much began a long time ago. This has got to be the first complaint I have ever heard of it. Why change something that is not really a problem. We should be focusing on sorting out our gardens instead or playing in the sun 8-D stress free!

 

But apparently, you're not allowed to do that. Nobody is allowed to do this (just ask TE). In one part of the staff meeting summary:

"All discussions in the Staff Boards and Meetings are to be kept strictly private. No leaking."

And you can't say "that's not what we meant". If it wasn't what you meant, neither you or ChainReaction or anyone should have written it down. Even the world strictly is in ITALICS. You mods and officials agreed to this in one of your meetings didn't you? There's no part of that sentence that supports what you just said, or any of the staff that said or implied that they will keep us informed to a certain level. Now, all of a sudden it's changed? Until an announcement is made that you have absolutely removed or changed the rule, MK and I have no reason to believe that you will keep your word.

 

No remember the whole Scott thing when Hkim became URPG Head and then the whole Scott thing with people "leaking" (me)

Emma you're so cute

 

I couldn't agree with this post more. The URPG frequently comes up with ideas that eventually lead to an "oh yea that should be done" from some higher up. Then it goes through an unknown process on the "Staff Board" and never resurfaces. I can think of countless efforts that have just ended out of the blue, and when they were questioned on the status of, the response was, "oh well it was discussed in the staff board and decided against" or something similar. No mention of the reasons of the dismissal. I think this is my, and I would hope a lot of other members', biggest personal issue with the staff Boards. There is rarely any indication of whether debate was had over certain issues, or if they were simply forgotten.

This is why I'd like to restate my idea from the Chat, why not allow members to see discussions of major ideas. The names of specific posts can be anonymous, if preferred. But it would allow members to see why something did or did not happen, and maybe try a second effort for reinstatement.

 

This needs to be given much more attention. If you (whether you're a staff or a member) have nothing else productive to say, then stop posting. I'm pretty sure we've already discussed the subject of the matter, and we've already understood each side's position. Yes, the Staff will start taking the necessary measures to ensure we are practicing the 'openness' that the members want. That is unless ... any Staff disagrees with the idea (the subject, and not whether it's really necessary), to which I believe all of us agree.

 

I already said that and locked the thread in attempt to end the fighting... who the hell re-opened it? ._.

EDIT: In retrospect, locking this was indeed a mistake.

In reference to what Marshy said above about good ideas being lost in the staff boards, I couldn't agree more. Especially after Nyurgh's ban, I pushed for a more efficient method of making decisions in the staff board, because they current method was both difficult and cumbersome. Often times, ideas or problems would never be resolved because endless prattling about nothing and basically talking the idea to death without any end product. It took me a month alone just to get the Budget Tourney through the staff.

Basically, if what this thread comes down to is a restructuring of the staff and/or its methods of operating, I'd stand behind that. Lets just be civil about it please ._.

 

Okay, I'm out too. MK, you've had four staff members, including myself offer to answer your questions about what's going on when we can, and I will still hold up to that if you ask me.

Currently in the staff boards: nothing. And there won't be anything else until the leaking is solved likely, so if instant results are what you want, I'm sorry, that just isn't possible right now unfortunately

I'm okay with being more open about certain things (not bans/promos, and if an idea is just mentioned and hasn't been talked about at least briefly), but that's not going to happen right now until we deal with this issue.

PM/IM/VM me if you like, MK. I'd like to help, as long as we can all be civilized.

 

MK wasn't the one arguing anything anymore.. How can you guys possibly give us more information if we message you? It seems like most of the people just disregarded this post.