In the Dock: Scyther Starters.

A bad example but a valid point. How much does Scyther's Base Stat Average vary from other starters? I mean if it really is way out (like 10-20 points above next nearest) then maybe there is a case.

 

Meditite with Pure Power - 358.
Cranidos - 349.
Scyther - 319.
Krabby - 309.
Sneasel - 289.

So we should ban Meditite and Krabby too, right? >_>

 

lolkrabby

Pretty much, yeah, Scyther's good when compared to other starters, but not unbeatable, and certainly not a huge contender against most fully evo'd mons. From what I can remember looking at the Starter Requests, Vulpix looked quite popular, and it 2HKOs Scyther with Flamethrower, so by the time it's used Swords Dance and Wing Attack, it's dead.

 

guess that answers the question then, there are more powerful starters and whilst Scyther may have a good move-pool (probably due to the fact that it started as a no-evolution Pokemon) that of itself is no reason to ban it. Unless a blanket 'no BSA of 300+' is introduced then there's no reason to ban Scyther

 

I just chose a Scyther as a starter, so take everything I say as someone who has happily gamed the system. I was actually surprised to see the request granted, be honest.

Most of those Pokemon have pretty miserable stats outside of attack though. Scyther brings a BST of 500 to the table.

I may just be a fathead, but according to the calc:

Technician Scyther Wing Attack vs. Vulpix: 188 damage (67.15%)
Vulpix Flamethrower vs. Scyther: 169 damage (50.59%)

And Scyther outspeeds Vulpix by 40 base stat points. Unless Vulpix gets a crit round one or the Scyther player decides to screw around with stupid crap, it's not going to win.

I think it's also kind of silly to claim Scyther can't hang with the big dogs as a basis to make him a starter Pokemon. The first evos of the BST 600 group can't either, but they're still banned (for reasons that have admittedly less to do with game balance and more to stop the plague of "I, Mary Sue will conquer the Pokemon league with my loyal Dratini/Gible who is a childhood friend/my draconic knight/saved me from a pedo").

 

Actually, 169 HP = 49.12%. Even if it does 50% somehow, which I don't know how you got that, using a Fire Blast/Overheat/Heat Wave on either round solves the problem. :|

 

Meh, read the HP from the wrong bracket. It's 174 damage: 169 HP (or 170, this calculator seems to play freely with rounding) is what Scyther has left after getting hit by the first Flamethrower. Still doesn't change the fact that Vulpix is trying to 2HKO a Pokemon (even Overheat is a 2HKO, if it even has it) that is faster and that can 2HKO it.

 

Yeah, just double checked the damage on Vulpix too, didn't bother earlier.

So yeah, Wing Attack 2HKO. Still, like what Sota said, the most you can achieve is beating up many basics. If whoever think that that is an awesome feat and Scyther is unbeatable, I say we shouldn't burst their bubble and ban Scyther. Scyther isn't invincible and will never be.

Now, if you want me to list out counters one by one, just tell me.

 

Or we can let this debate die in peace; some people will go OMG uber and use him; if they have a working strategy, I say let them reap the benefits of their choice. It won't be long until people will find counters, or else they'll have an edge for a while; but as has been stated multiple times, he's not unbeatable, and shouldn't be banned as a starter.

 

Ah, I forgot about Technician. But still, that doesn't prove that Scyther is so strong it should be banned.

 

I don't think anyone is complaining that Scyther is uber (given its proud status as a UU towel boy), merely that its base power is way out of line when you'll be fighting opponents whose BSTs are lower by a hundred or more points. Bug/Flying is a shit typing and Scyther's base coverage is not ultimate, but with technician and a healthy stat bonus over most people you can go farther than you think.

Status in normal play? Sure, he's fine. Status when you're running around with other people with Squirtles and Bulbasaurs? Being limited as a non-starter Pokemon isn't terribly unreasonable.

 

All I have to say is that you guys just wait til you get farther into this whole URPG thing... Scyther/Scizor will be pretty low on your list of worries by then =P

 

And so is Latios if you hadn't noticed .-. It was obviously not a comparisons of starters, but rather one that was more dealing to URPG on the whole.

I'm going to reiterate a point that you anti-Scythers are missing. The starter Pokemon are banned off of flavor, and are not supposed to make a balanced metagame.