Battle Frontier!

WHAT?! A thread not discussing an issue/contests?!?! BLASPHEMY! But for real.

I (and others, i.e. Swift, Syn, and Monbrey) have had and tossed around ideas for a Battle Frontier! There are a couple ideas right now; this is all very "diamond in the rough" at the moment. But we all wanted other people's opinions/suggestions on these ideas and see where we can go from there.

So there are two major idea: My Battle Frontier (inspired by comments by Swift) that would either be implemented as a new Gym like format (or overtake the OI), and Syn's Battle Frontier, which is more of a large scale tournament.

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My idea is proposed as such:


"Battle Frontier (to either implement into, or take over Orange Islands)

All battles will be 4v4 - 6v6, SM Private Full/Preview (maybe give battle style as an option for the leader?), Helds On, No Weather, Standard Terrain, Slp/Frz/Eva/Acc/OHKO/Legendary Clauses on, unless specified otherwise.

Battle Arcade: Players choose their teams with items and give to ref. Ref will then announce the teams (if preview) and then roll 3 6(7?)-sided dice. First die rolled is for the leader, second die rolled is for the challenger, third die rolled is for the field. Rolls follow suit:

1 – Weather: Sun*, Sand*, Rain*, Hail*, Fog*
2 – Entry Hazards: Stones**, Spikes**, Toxic Spikes**, Sticky Web**
3 – Terrains: Electric*, Psychic*, Grassy*, Misty*
4 – Status: Paralyze**, Frozen(?)**, Burn**, Poison**, Sleep**
5 – Items: Helds Off*, Helds Swapped*, All Given Sitrus Berries*, All Given Toxic/Flame Orb/Iron Ball/Mail*
6 – Other: Trick Room*, Poké-Swap*, Wonder Room*, Clear All Rolls* (and/or Reverse All Rolls* ?)
7 (?) – Volatile Status: Leech Seeded**, Rooted**, Infatuated**, Aqua Ring**, Tormented**, Taunted**, Confused**, Cursed**


* Applicable to the field even if rolled on an individual.
**Applicable to both individuals if rolled for the field.

After rolls are finished and everything finalized, players choose their leads and begin.

Also side note: Effects like weather, terrain (e.g. electric, or grassy, etc), and trick room are in effect the whole battle. If a Pokémon uses a move (e.g. Rain Dance, Trick Room, Electric Terrain, etc.) they will last as long as they would appropriately, but the field will return to whichever was rolled for that battle; i.e. Battle has Hail and Trick Room, battlers use Sunny Day and Trick Room, the Sun shines bright and the dimensions return to normal for 4/5 turns.

Also also, effects are applicable where appropriate; i.e. Steel mons can't be poisoned, Genderless mons can't be infatuated, etc.


Battle Dome: Multi-Battle – needs two leaders at a time and two challengers in order to battle.


Battle Pyramid: Legend Clause is OFF(ON?), except the leader is allowed one(?) legendary. Leader can use their own legendary if they wish, but do not have to, nor own their own legendary mon to be the leader. Leader will/can rent a legendary for this role specifically.


Battle Factory: Both leader and challenger rent Pokémon (use details from budget tourny?). OR have both players rent a team of 6 Pokémon; all 6 will have full EMs available from Ultradex.


Battle Castle/Palace (?): Players bring their own Pokémon to the match, but all their EMs and Items are wiped. They are given a budget and must send their purchased list (and which EMs go on which mon) to the ref before teams are previewed (if playing preview). (Use details, again(?) from budget tourny?)


Battle Hall(?): Both players must have a Pokémon of each type, 6 types are rolled and then both challenger and leader must fill those types to make their teams. Dual type Pokémon are allowed to fill either of their own slots (i.e. Dragonite can fill either Dragon or Flying). (Kind of a mix of Trovita and Kumquat)


Battle Tower: Challenger must have defeated 3 minimum Battle Frontier Heads in order to challenge.


Rewards: Maybe have it be +1k to all players involved (including ref) overall? +1.5k/2k for Battle Tower? (is that too much overall?? Maybe a TM? or a DC Pass for each win along with the money?)


Battle Arcade and the Arcade Star give the Luck Symbol
Battle Dome and the Dome Ace give the Tactics Symbol
Battle Pyramid and the Pyramid King give the Brave Symbol
Battle Factory and the Factory Head give the Knowledge Symbol
Battle Castle and the Castle Valet (although I like the sound of Battle Palace and the Palace Guardian better, or Palace Maven) give the Ability Symbol
Battle Hall and the Hall Matron give the Spirit(?) Symbol
Battle Tower and the Tower Tycoon give the Battle Frontier Trophy

Some of my concerns here:

Battle Arcade's possibility of having an entire team frozen seems a bit OP. Maybe we can take out FRZ? Although it'd be rare (which is part of the game; i.e. luck of the draw[or roll]), and they do have the same possibility for Sun to take place or have both teams be frozen too.

Battle Pyramid's legendary clause - should we allow challengers with a legendary to use theirs? This would be like, one of the only places someone can use their legendary outside of contest/ffa/park and also the only place in a serious battle. Also, maybe have the leader do a 3 v 6 (leader has 3) where the leader has only legendaries? Or say "use these legendaries for your first 2 and the last one can be any" and provide a list of say, the regis, the elemental birds/dogs, the lake spirits, other not-so-terrifying legendaries?

Battle Factory and Castle/Palace may be too similar? I thought having Factory be like, you get to choose any six Pokémon and use the ultradex as their stats would be cool where Castle/Palace would be an actual budgeting of your own mons?"

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Syn's idea is purposed as such:


""Hi, hi, <player>! It's me, Scott. I'm aboard the S.S. Tidal now. It feels great to be on the sea! By the way... There's this place that I'd like to invite you to for a visit. If you're interested, board a ferry at either Slateport or Lilycove. I'll fill you in on the details when we meet. I'll be waiting!"


The goal? Defeat the Frontier Heads and collect BP!


However, before you can challenge a Frontier Head you must defeat three opponents using rules specific to each of the Battle Frontier Institutions:


Battle Tower

Rules: Double Battle

Frontier Head: Salon Maiden Anabel. Anabel hears rumours of the player's rankings in the Battle Tower, but she is not impressed.

Prize: Ability Symbol



Battle Palace

Rules: For each turn, the trainer must send two moves for their Pokemon. Which move will be executed is rolled by the ref.

Frontier Head: Palace Maven Spenser. Spenser's physical being and heartbeat are as one with his Pokémon, his brethren. He has full trust in his Pokémon. He makes loud threats to set his opponent off guard

Prize: Spirits Symbol



Battle Factory

Rules: At the start of each battle, the ref will roll Pokemon to rent for the duration of the battle. The order of rolling: Tier 4, Tier 3, Tier 2, Tier 1, Tier 4, Tier 3.

Frontier Head: Noland. He instructs others that just reading isn't enough to learn about Pokémon; instead, a Trainer must gain experience.

Prize: Knowledge Symbol



Battle Pyramid

Rules: Wonder Launcher

Frontier Head: Pyramid King Brandon. Brandon appreciates the grand life of the explorer. He recalls the passion, danger, and desperation of his death-defying and life-affirming adventures.

Prize: Brave Symbol



Battle Dome

Rules: Private Preview

Frontier Head: Dome Ace Tucker. Tucker is a superstar and enjoys the sound of a crowd chanting his name. He prefaces battles with narcissistic comments.

Prize: Tactics Symbol



Battle Arena

Rules: Pokemon battle in a series of 1 vs 1 battles

Frontier Head: Arena Tycoon Greta. Greta can be blunt, and if an opponent looks weak, she'll let them know. She likes tough Trainers.

Prize: Guts Symbol



Battle Pike

Rules: At the start of each battle, 1 or more of each player’s Pokemon are inflicted with a random status

Frontier Head: Pike Queen Lucy. Lucy "trampled flowers and braved storms" to reach her position. She isn't one for idle chatter, preferring to go right into battle. When she's defeated, she prefers her opponent to hurry and move along.

Prize: Luck Symbol



PRIZES

Prizes may be awarded based on number of Symbols earned.

Winning a battle awards 1 BP. Defeating a Frontier Head awards 3 BP. BP can be exchanged for prizes once the Battle Frontier tournament has ended."

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Suggestions/questions/mixing the two ideas/etc are all encouraged and welcomed. However, this is a heap of ideas (i.e. there's a lot of different stuff going on in this one post), so to keep sanity, if you'd label your responses if suggesting something, that'd be great. Like:

Implementation/Removal of OI:
I'd be for/against the idea of blablabla...

Battle Arcade Rules?:
In Liam's Battle Arcade- IT'S DUMB BECAUSE BLABLABLA....

etc. Again, that's not required or anything, but it'd help with organization of the many ideas being tossed. Thanks!

 

I particularly like how many times this thread uses the word "Battle".

 

I really don't like the idea of being able to bring in any Legendary to the Battle Pyramid, and that's coming from one of the two people who would benefit from it the most. Even if the challenger would be able to rent any Legendary of their choice (even for a single slot) it would just boil down to choosing between Rayqauaza or pointlessly handicapping yourself. I think allowing both players to rent a legendary (maybe multiple?) from a limited list could work, but allowing anything would punish everyone but myself, Ash, and to a lesser extent Monbrey, and allowing anyone to rent anything would just lead to a Rayqauaza on every team. The only other alternative I can think of would be turning Mega Clause on for it, which would prevent the use of the Mega Legendaries.

 

Gym-style, not tourney (or maybe a tourney as an introduction!)

Prefer Gym-style definitely, especially if we're agreed on replacing Orange Islands with this. I also like Syn's idea to compete with and beat three of your peers in battles with rules specific to those Battle Frontier institutions before challenging the Frontier Head, like a better-fitting version of the gym trainers concept we float sometimes.

Maybe we could hold a tournament to introduce the system, and hold Frontier Head offers for the winners within each institution's ruleset? (How, exactly, we can suss out later.) It feels like a much more big-deal way to introduce the Frontier than just by holding Gym-style applications, and could even be something we hype up like we did Sun/Moon during the Invitational.

BP please!!

One of the things we could offer is BP as Syn suggested, which incentivizes Frontier battling even after you beat the Frontier Head, and especially if you're able to battle non-Heads under Frontier rules for BP.

I think it'd also be cool to offer something like a Complex mon if you can complete the Battle Frontier (or possibly just Tower?) challenge, as a small-scale analog to how winning the Champion position for the first time offers a Legendary Pokemon. The lack of such a reward in Orange Islands is definitely noticed, although obviously, the most important thing is always having good rules (unlike OI).

Regarding payment for battles: matching the payment scale for battles against Frontier Heads to battles against Gym Leaders makes sense. If we install 'casual' Frontier battles, I don't think those need to pay extra over regular battles, regardless of whether or not BP becomes a thing.

Half-baked thoughts on individual Frontier institutions

• Pyramid: I don't love having banlists in URPG, but to lean into the idea a little bit, we could just take the actual Battle Frontier banlist. Some of the names on the list are weird, like Phione and Cosmog, and you could say some off the list are stronger than some on it, but mostly it works and it's nice to go off a banlist that actually exists in-game. Brandon was using the Regi's anyway, so maybe it makes sense to lean into Pyramid as an exhibition of shittier legendaries that you would never claim as your profession legend or whatever. See here for a list of what's banned from the Battle Tree in Sun/Moon.
• Factory: I like a mix of both suggestions: roll a number (three? six?) within each tier for each battler, and then they have to rent one of their rolls from each tier. If you do a 6v6, you could do one of each tier, plus two random tiers rolled for the battle. Granted, that's a lot of rolls. All EMs and HAs turned on would be fun.
• Dome/Tower: Prefer Liam's suggestions, especially since his Tower suggestion leads to a sense of progression within the Battle Frontier. Dome is tricky, but the payoff of competitive Multis seems completely worth it.
  
• Pike/Palace: Prefer Syn's suggestions, which are pretty damn inspired. For Pike, I think rolling 1-6 (the five major statuses, or no status, with SLP/FRZ Clause required on) for every single Pokemon would be hilarious, and it also introduces the consideration of using status-immune Pokemon like Poison or Steel-types that existed in the original Pike. Wary, though, of a first-turn Heal Bell meta.
• Liam's Hall and Syn's Arena: Not in love with these rules, which remind me of OI. If there's a single redeemable ruleset from OI, I think it's Navel's Pokeswap rule.
• Naming: Minor detail, but I like the general uniformity of naming every institution after one from the original Battle Frontier in Emerald, as Syn suggests. Maybe just me, but Emerald's Frontier holds stronger in my mind than any of the newer institutions from later games. That means keeping Arena and Pike in (though Liam's Arcade suggestion would still fit Pike!), and Palace over Castle.

 

Wow!!!! So many creative battling ideas! It might add a spice as an alternatice to the standard urpg league besides OI which are clearly out of date. I do think this might be a bit... large if you know what I mean. Having 8 different battle platforms seems a bit much. I would reduce the requirement to get the trophy to 6 of the 8 formats like how you don't need all of the badges to. Halle he the Elite Four.

The rules for the battle arcade seem a bit too much. Perhaps roll for four special entry conditions rather than all of them? All of those at once is completely overwhelming. Introducing volitile statuses can be a bit tricky. You mention leech seeds every Pokémon gets seeded and gets sapped to the other? Taunt shouldn't be permanent.

For battle facory will we be able to em our Pokémon given a budget? There is on that allows us to bring out pokes but then we have to budget em them.

 

The challenger would not be able to rent a Legendary, but if they had their own Legendary, then they could bring it. The only rented Legendaries would be for the leader. But I agree the Mega Clause should be on to help balance the legends themselves and use a list (as nitro suggested) to see different legendaries. I suggested this in Dome so people who do have legendaries have a venue outside of FFAs/contests o use them (like, in an actual battle).

Yea this idea is pretty large, but it's suppose to be in a way. But I had suggested a person only needing to defeat 3 Battle Heads before being able to go to the Battle Tower and getting the trophy.

You don't roll for every single group. You roll 3 dice only: 1 roll for the challenger, 1 roll for the leader, 1 roll for the field.

Ex: Challenger gets rolled: !d 7: 1 Weather! !d 5: 4 Hail! (Hail will be starting weather for the battle and effect both players even though it was rolled on the challenger). Leader gets rolled: !d 7:3 Terrains! !d 4: 3 Grassy! (Grasy terrain will be present throughout the battle and effect both players even though it was rolled on an individual). Field gets rolled: !d 7: 7 Volatile! !d 8: 2 Rooted! (All Mons on both teams will be rooted as the volatile status was rolled for the field).

Although the volatile statuses are up in the air on which ones should be included or if they should be included at all, I just thought things like, being rooted and Red Card/Roar not be viable or being Tormented and having to use a different move each turn would be kind of fun.

My Battle Factory idea said we'd be able to use any EMs listed from the UltraDex; so you rent, say, Ditto and Clefable. You get to use anything Ditto can have (Imposter) and anything Clefable can have (like, everything). The only one you rent EMs for is Battle Palace/Castle, where you use your own mons, but they're wiped clean of all EMs, you're given a budget, and you decide what to put on where before battle begins.

I responded to yours inside the quote and bolded my responses as I thought it be easier/more organized that way.

 

IN RESPONSE TO SWIFT:

Battle Arcade:

Spoiler

Players choose their teams with items and give to ref. Ref will then announce the teams (if preview) and then roll 3 6(7?)-sided dice. First die rolled is for the leader, second die rolled is for the challenger, third die rolled is for the field. Rolls follow suit:

1 – Weather: Sun*, Sand*, Rain*, Hail*, Fog*
2 – Entry Hazards: Stones**, Spikes**, Toxic Spikes**, Sticky Web**
3 – Terrains: Electric*, Psychic*, Grassy*, Misty*
4 – Status: Paralyze**, Frozen(?)**, Burn**, Poison**, Sleep**
5 – Items: Helds Off*, Helds Swapped*, All Given Sitrus Berries*, All Given Toxic/Flame Orb/Iron Ball/Mail*
6 – Other: Trick Room*, Poké-Swap*, Wonder Room*, Clear All Rolls* (and/or Reverse All Rolls* ?)
7 (?) – Volatile Status: Leech Seeded**, Rooted**, Infatuated**, Aqua Ring**, Tormented**, Taunted**, Confused**, Cursed**


* Applicable to the field even if rolled on an individual.
**Applicable to both individuals if rolled for the field.

After rolls are finished and everything finalized, players choose their leads and begin.

Also side note: Effects like weather, terrain (e.g. electric, or grassy, etc), and trick room are in effect the whole battle. If a Pokémon uses a move (e.g. Rain Dance, Trick Room, Electric Terrain, etc.) they will last as long as they would appropriately, but the field will return to whichever was rolled for that battle; i.e. Battle has Hail and Trick Room, battlers use Sunny Day and Trick Room, the Sun shines bright and the dimensions return to normal for 4/5 turns.

Also also, effects are applicable where appropriate; i.e. Steel mons can't be poisoned, Genderless mons can't be infatuated, etc.

Couple things here: Terrain and weather cannot apply to half the field either so make sure we note that. Infatuation and Curse I disagree with having on there. Infatuation requires you to have a Pokemon to be infatuated with so it's kinda weird to just have on its own. Curse would just KO things too quickly and make the battle unfun. Sleep and Freeze should not be roll-able especially with SLP and FRZ Clauses on.

Yea, even if weather/terrain are rolled on an individual, it would effect the whole field like it would in the example I gave Julio in my last post.

Question: if I send out a Pokemon and it is immediately Taunted/Confused due to the roll would switching it out and back in relieve it of that volatile status? Imo it should but just checking !

Yea I imagine it would, and if they didn't those would have a counter like normal!

Battle Dome: Multi-Battle – needs two leaders at a time and two challengers in order to battle.

This is fine I guess but will be difficult to schedule. I foresee this being rather inactive for large portions of time.

True, but I think there's enough want to have something like this. We can be tougher on the Frontier Brains though to make sure they're active enough so battles can happen.


Battle Factory: Both leader and challenger rent Pokémon (use details from budget tourny?). OR have both players rent a team of 6 Pokémon; all 6 will have full EMs available from Ultradex.

There's already a Battle Factory tourney we could draw from for this rule. Though, I'm hesitant to make that into a battle rule that can be challenged at will because it then makes the tourney itself kinda pointless.

Yea that was my concern too. I kind of like the idea of rolling from a tiered list like Nitro suggested, and then using the UltraDex as you're "stats", i.e. the mons hat are rolled can have any EM available.

Battle Castle/Palace (?): Players bring their own Pokémon to the match, but all their EMs and Items are wiped. They are given a budget and must send their purchased list (and which EMs go on which mon) to the ref before teams are previewed (if playing preview). (Use details, again(?) from budget tourny?)

Same sentiment as Battle Factory here. But yeah, ideally this is where Budget Rules would go.

Remember, this is like the other half of it, where people use their own mons who aren't rolled, but wipe their stats clean and use a budget to choose their new EMs, given to the ref beforehand.

But you did mention in another area, choosing EMs on the spot is tricky and not having a concrete place like trainer stats to reference them is difficult, even if it were given to the ref beforehand, it could still have issues.

If anything, we could scrap this one altogether and use Syn's idea of: For each turn, the trainer must send two moves for their Pokemon. Which move will be executed is rolled by the ref. That seems like a cool rule that isn't overly complicated/similar to others.

Battle Hall(?): Both players must have a Pokémon of each type, 6 types are rolled and then both challenger and leader must fill those types to make their teams. Dual type Pokémon are allowed to fill either of their own slots (i.e. Dragonite can fill either Dragon or Flying). (Kind of a mix of Trovita and Kumquat)

Hmmmmmmm idk about this cause OI sucks so do we really want any OI rules to carry over? But seriously other than that I dont see much wrong with this rule although, again, it might get rather inactive with the challenge requirements.

Maybe we could go off of what the challenger has? Like if the challenger only has like 8 different types, then we'd roll from those 8 types? That still might be too exclusive, though. However, I did like the idea down below from you and Syn that we could put in place instead of this rule. It could be a 3-die roll between Triple, Rotation, and Double battle!

Battle Tower: Challenger must have defeated 3 minimum Battle Frontier Heads in order to challenge.

I'd argue this is where we could turn Legend Clause Off a-la-Elite 4.

Reasonable.

[Putting the two Battle Pyramid convo's together]

Battle Pyramid: Legend Clause is OFF(ON?), except the leader is allowed one(?) legendary. Leader can use their own legendary if they wish, but do not have to, nor own their own legendary mon to be the leader. Leader will/can rent a legendary for this role specifically.

I'd rather it be like 5 legends rolled and then the Frontier Brain (<- use this term !) gets to choose one. Might get more interesting if we tier legends. This rule is rather weird, though, when you take EMs into account. Even most legends (key word: most) are pretty meh without any extra moves. Let's maybe brainstorm a different way to implement Battle Pyramid. Maybe even a collab facility with Park since in-game it involves Wild Pokemon? Idk just spitballin here.

Battle Pyramid's legendary clause - should we allow challengers with a legendary to use theirs? This would be like, one of the only places someone can use their legendary outside of contest/ffa/park and also the only place in a serious battle. Also, maybe have the leader do a 3 v 6 (leader has 3) where the leader has only legendaries? Or say "use these legendaries for your first 2 and the last one can be any" and provide a list of say, the regis, the elemental birds/dogs, the lake spirits, other not-so-terrifying legendaries?

Elite Four is a thing ! 3v6 and/or force to start with legends I'm not for. Again this could prob go in Tower; I see no reason for a facility to exist if it's vanilla. And again, I'm not sure about renting a legend on the spot because of the way EMs would work unless they're like fully EMd which could be OP. Choosing x amount of EMs on the spot isnt ideal either because there are no stats to add them to. Maybe initially and then after each subsequent challenge, the Frontier Brain gets to pick from 3-5 rolled legends and put 10 EMs on it. They could then keep track of this in their regular Trainer Stats.

Yea I imagined the Pyramid King would rent a legend and keep that in their stats like one would rent a mon for their gym. And yea, maybe we could give them 10 EMs to put on their rented legends if they wanted. I like the list nitro provided too, maybe we can roll the Pyramid King 3-5 out of that list? or they could just choose their own? Should we then limit 1 legendary per battle?

If this is sill too vanilla, then maybe it could be a Double battle as well? Or if that's too similar to Battle Hall, then maybe we could do that wild Pokémon idea? Have a list of potential Pokémon wild in the Pyramid, roll from them after each round and have them use a random attack? (Attacks can be rolled from a list as well that we can create).

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PRIZES:

To become the Frontier Brain? I'm not so sure how that would work. Although I do kind of like the idea of someone taking over if they choose to after defeating the Frontier Brain, but I'm also skeptical in the same way.

On one hand, it would decrease the possibility of an inactive person holding the position and needing an LO to kick them, but on the other hand, if someone rents mons, or they have mons more specifically for these positions, then them being ousted potentially on their first battle could be kind of unfortunate as well as a lot of potential change, like "who is the Pyramid Head this week? Oh, I though that person was Pike Queen, no? They lost to so-and-so? Who's who? @[email protected]"

BP sounds cool, but this is true. We don't need another mart. I think the Frontier Brain battle pay = Gym leader pay and winning a DC pass for their first time winning a Symbol and a Complex mon for winning the BF Trophy are good.


SORRY for the text wall of confusion. I hope I formatting things well enough to make it all legible.

 

I also don't like the idea of having the winner replace the previous Frontier Brain (like how the Champion system works). In addition to what you said, it could lead to two or three members being all the Frontier Brains at once.

 

Then an easy fix would be to say you can only become a Frontier Brain if you arent one already lol not sure why that's complicated. You also don't have to take the position it just becomes an option if you win. I'd prefer a system where we cycle thru Frontier Brains rather than just always keeping the same one. I dont really think confusion about who the Frontier Brain is is much of an issue either we'd have threads to keep track of this stuff just like we do for Gym Leader.

We could incentivize it. For becoming/defeating a Frontier Brain and for every subsequent defend, you get x. Once you hit y amount of defends you get z etc. Similar to the way LD is right now. It keeps the system fresh and prevents it from stagnating under inactive/easy-to-defeat Frontier Brains.

 

For using Legendaries against Brandon, maybe both the Leader and the Challenger get rolled one each from the same tier. I don't agree with a banlist because why did you get your Rayquaza for then?

 

Frontier Brains

I'm also against the idea of cycling through Frontier Brains. Seems like more hassle than it's worth, and I would rather we have Frontier Brains as similar to Gym Leaders, just like Orange Islands leaders are currently. We already have LD for the king-of-the-hill system, and in my opinion that suffices.

I'm less concerned with any of the work involved in keeping track of or regulating such a system. It'd be a little bit of work, because some of the LD information across Infohub can be out of date at times, but completely survivable. I just don't like rotating leaders like this.

"Gym trainers"

My bad for using this term earlier, because it might indicate that I wanted Gym trainers to be an actual position below the Frontier Brain rank. Nah. We don't need more sub-ranks. I just think that you should challenge your peers, who are also looking to qualify for a Frontier Brain battle, and win three to move on. So not actual, appointed Gym Trainers, just a similar sense of build-up to qualify for the big showdown.

This is where BP helps, because it's a tidy way of incentivizing (non-Head) Frontier battles after you meet the bar to qualify so that people who don't can still find opponents to ease. Swift is right though, that we don't need another currency. I'm against increased pay, because this seems easily abusable if I offered to help twenty noobs out with their Factory battles and crush 'em all. We might be fine without any added bonus, though, since people love to do randoms already -- maybe we won't have any trouble getting people to do a Frontier battle instead of 6v6 randoms.

• Battle Pyramid: One legendary is fine, and if we decide to use that banlist, I think it makes more sense to think of the Pyramid as an exhibition of shittier legendaries you probably wouldn't claim, like Raikou, instead of a place where you get to use your Mega-Ray or whatever. So stick to the banlist, rentals only? Realistically, with perma legends, you'll still always have more opportunities to use Mega Ray than something like Raikou, because who would claim Raikou?
  • Rental EMs will be a tricky thing in this situation as well, so maybe consider turning them all on like in Factory? Off top, I don't think any one legendary that isn't already on the Battle Tree banlist becomes too centralizing.
• Battle Tower: Yes! Make this the place where you can use your own legends. Bear in mind, the rule for Champion battles is "One Legendary Pokemon allowed per team, or No Legendary Pokemon." At the very least, I would cap it at one. Because of the Mega Ray factor, I'd also like the Frontier Head (who, for example, might only own a Dialga which really can't compare) to be able to turn Legends Off, but maybe stipulate it with the requirement of owning a Legendary to become the Tower Head? We're getting to a place where that's feasible, I think.
• Battle Arena: Fully in favor of Navel's rule OR the Pokeswap rule for Arena. My bad on mixing them up earlier, but we don't need both in one probably. But either rule is a good time. Alternatively, we could just continue to brainstorm and come up with a brand new one.
• Battle Factory: Rename the tournament named after Battle Factory, or, if the rulesets are too similar, phase out the tournament entirely. I think having Factory in Frontier is definitely worth the trade-off of one specific tournament gimmick, as fun as that tournament is.

 

I agree. Swift's idea was sounding interesting, but I do think it might be more work than necessary and having it the same style we have Gym Leaders, E4, and OI now would suffice.

I'm confused by this. Especially by the "challenge your peers, who are also looking to qualify for a Frontier Brain battle, and win three to move on". Move onto what? Do you mean, like, the idea of having a little mini tourney to see who becomes the Frontier Brains first instead of an app?

And then the second paragraph is also confusing. We wouldn't increase the pay of a battle other than the one vs. the Frontier Brain where you will win the Symbol and possibly a DC Pass (possibly as in, it's been pitched that that's what one would win, akin to the Gym Leaders TMs). If people want to have battles with these formats they sure can, but they wouldn't be BF unless against the Frontier Brain.

I guess, I'm just unsure/no seeing clear your idea of a "Gym Trainer" then.

That's fair with one legendary from the banlist. Maybe the leader can have a roster of 3-5 rented legends to choose from? Like they have 3-5 rented legends in their stats, but can only choose one per battle. And I don't think rental EMs would be tricky, in the sense that each rented Legend would come with 10 EMs of renter's choice; it'd be in their stats. I also think, if someone did have a legendary mon that isn't on the Battle Tree's banlist, they should be allowed to put it in their roster (this, of course, would then count for one of the 3-5 they could have rented).

Ex: Pyramid King rents the 3 regis, Regigigas, and Zapados, Pyramid king earns a Regice through reffing, Pyramid King puts his own Regice in Battle Pyramid instead of the rented one; no EMs transfer over, no EMs available to rent for owned Regice, Pyramid King is still only able to use 1 legend per battle whether it be a rented one or his owned Regice.

I agree, although I'm iffy on the requirement to be Tower Head.

I suggested changing the rule completely to be a battle format rolled on a 3-die: Triple Battle, Rotation Battle, Double Battle.

I think we could have both. Here at the Battle Frontier, I liked the idea of rolling 6 mon from the tiered list from Budget Tourny. Maybe 2 from Ter 1, 2 from Tier 2, 2 from Tier 3. Then using the UltraDex as their "stats", i.e. the rolled mons are fully EM'd by URPG standards. (Kind of a mix between mine and Syn's ideas.)

The tourney is different in the sense that it has you picking 4 from 6 rolled, and then taking a mon from the team you defeated as you climb the tourney ladder, which wouldn't be applicable in the Gym Leader/E4/OI format suggested.

Like maybe change the name if people find them too confusing because they're different? But one would just be a more molded-to-URPG style for Battle Frontier and the other would be more from-game styled tourney.

 

I'd actually say the opposite @ LD sufficing. I think this would be a good way to set BF apart from the Gym system and keep it fresh since LD is currently the only thing with this type of system. I dont think it would be much of a hassle to implement, honestly. It also gives a reason for people to keep challenging the same facility instead of being done as soon as they earn the symbol.

To clarify, Liam, the idea is that there should be some sort of build up to even challenge the Frontier Brain in the first place like there is in the games. Beating three trainers with the respective facility's rule before being able to challenge the FB is the idea, I believe. Only becoming a Frontier Brain and beating one would give any extra prizes/incentives. The battles required to get to the FB challenge are incentivized enough by the fact that you have to do them to qualify. (Also, to clarify further,these battles dont have to be a 3 win streak; just 3 wins under the facility's rule.)

 

I could actually see this and I think it'd be a cool aspect too, especially with the clarification on "gym trainers".

Oooh! Okay. Yea, I like that idea, especially how you put it. No incentive until FB because someone could just pick on some poor new members (which we'd discourage anyway), but it wouldn't reward anything special other than the ability to challenge the FB. My only question is: if you challenge the FB and loose, do you have to win another 3 battles to challenge the FB again? I'd assume so, like the games, but just asking for clarification.

 

• Swift got what I was trying to get at, regarding the build-up to a Frontier Brain challenge.
• Regarding Battle Arena, I still prefer Navel or Pokeswap (I liked those rules a lot!!), but yeah, didn't see your suggestion earlier and it's also a good one to consider.
• I imagined Battle Tower as similar to Elite Four or Orange Islands Champion, so anyone who's at that level would realistically have a battle-ready Legendary anyway.
• Mostly, I just don't like the LD style rotating leader. It definitely has a place in our battling system and fits great for LD specifically, but I would say for Frontier, the rulesets already achieve a uniqueness from the gym system (kinda the point) and we wouldn't need to rely on the king-of-the-hill style to differentiate it further. I prefer the idea of the Frontier Head position being something stable -- I'd love to be, say, the Dome Ace in the same way that I am Sootopolis' Gym Leader.

 

UPDATED VERSION


Battle Frontier (to either implement into, or take over Orange Islands)

All battles will be 4v4 - 6v6, SM Private Full/Preview (maybe give battle style as an option for the leader?), Helds On, No Weather, Standard Terrain, Slp/Frz/Eva/Acc/OHKO/Legendary Clauses on, unless specified otherwise.

In order to challenge a Frontier Brain, one must have won 3 battles using their format with any other member. If one looses a match to a Brain, one must win another 3 battles in order to challenge that Brain again.

Battle Arcade/Pike: Players choose their teams with items and give to ref. Ref will then announce the teams (if preview) and then roll 3 6(7?)-sided dice. First die rolled is for the leader, second die rolled is for the challenger, third die rolled is for the field. Rolls follow suit:

1 – Weather: Sun*, Sand*, Rain*, Hail*, Fog*
2 – Entry Hazards: Stones**, Spikes**, Toxic Spikes**, Sticky Web**
3 – Terrains: Electric*, Psychic*, Grassy*, Misty*
4 – Status: Paralyze**, Burn**, Poison**, Sleep**(?)
5 – Items: Helds Off*, Helds Swapped*, All Given Sitrus Berries*, All Given Toxic/Flame Orb/Iron Ball/Mail*
6 – Other: Trick Room*, Poké-Swap*, Wonder Room*, Clear All Rolls* (and/or Reverse All Rolls* ?)
7 (?) – Volatile Status: Leech Seeded**, Rooted**, Aqua Ring**, Tormented**, Taunted**, Confused**


* Applicable to the entire field even if rolled on an individual.
**Applicable to both individuals if rolled for the field.

After rolls are finished and everything finalized, players choose their leads and begin.

Side note: Effects like weather, terrain (e.g. electric, or grassy, etc), and trick room are in effect the whole battle. If a Pokémon uses a move (e.g. Rain Dance, Trick Room, Electric Terrain, etc.) they will last as long as they would appropriately, but the field will return to whichever was rolled for that battle; i.e. Battle has Hail and Trick Room, battlers use Sunny Day and Trick Room, the Sun shines bright and the dimensions return to normal for 4/5 turns.

Another side note: Effects like Taunt/Torment/Confusion have timers as per normal and can be nullified if the mon is switched out as per normal.

Also also, effects are applicable where appropriate; i.e. Steel mons can't be poisoned, Electric mons can't be paralyzed, etc.


Battle Dome: Multi-Battle – needs two leaders at a time and two challengers in order to battle.


Battle Pyramid: Players will choose their teams of 5 and send to ref. The ref will then publically roll 3 different legends for each player. Players will then choose their legends privately to the ref and use the UltraDex as the legends' stats. Mega Ray Clause is ON.

(?)Wild Pokémon: Every turn there is a chance of a wild Pokémon attacking each team. Ref rolls from a list of Pokémon and then a list of moves to decide which Pokémon attacks using what to whichever team.


Battle Factory: Using Budget Tourny tier's, ref will roll 2 Tier 1's, 2 Tier 2's, an 2 Tier 3 mons (? could use Syn's original Tier 4, Tier 3, Tier 2, Tier 1, Tier 4, Tier 3, which would give a more diverse team of mons not always seen) for both the leader and the challenger. Battlers will use the UltraDex as their "stats" (i.e. every mon is fully EM'd by URPG standards).


Battle Palace: For each turn, the trainer must send two moves for their Pokémon. Which move will be executed is rolled by the ref.


Battle Hall: Battle format is rolled, by the ref, between Triple Battle, Rotation Battle, and Double Battle prior (or after?) to teams being sent to ref.

(?)Or: Navel battle rules with Pokeswap, similar to the previous Naval Tourny?


Battle Tower: Challenger must have defeated 3 minimum Battle Frontier Heads in order to challenge. E4 rules apply.


Rewards: Each Frontier Brain battle receives the same pay as a Gym battle (Battle Tower equivalent to E4 battle?), and a Move Voucher (or DC Pass?) is rewarded to the challenger when they defeat a Frontier Brain for the first time. A Complex mon is awarded to a challenger who defeats the Tower Tycoon (?).


Battle Arcade/Pike and the Arcade Star/Pike Queen give the Luck Symbol
Battle Dome and the Dome Ace give the Tactics Symbol
Battle Pyramid and the Pyramid King give the Brave Symbol
Battle Factory and the Factory Head give the Knowledge Symbol
Battle Palace and the Palace Guardian/Maven give the Spirits Symbol
Battle Hall and the Hall Matron give the Guts Symbol
Battle Tower and the Tower Tycoon give the Battle Frontier Trophy


Determination of Frontier Brains:

1. They apply and are picked by an League Organizer similar to Gym Leaders.

2. After a challenger defeats a Frontier Brain, they have the option of taking over, similar to Legend Defender.

In either case, we could introduce the Battle Frontier as/during an Invitational/Tourny and the winners of certain sections become the first Frontier Brains. Maybe first to defeat 3 in a certain format becomes that Brain and first to defeat 3 Brains can become the Tower Tycoon?

 

I like the ideas here, especially the having to beat 3 other members with the ruleset to challenge the Brain. This allows battlers to progress up to the challenge while also giving everyone access to the rule at all times. I'd add the caveat that if they fail to beat the Brain, they must again beat 3 other members to qualify for a re-challenge.

Don't think Battle Points need to exist, but obviously there should be some incentive for working your way through the Frontier.

On the fence over king-of-the-hill Brains as I'd love to see this "for fun" region not get as stale as our regular ones, plus it adds a good innate incentive to work towards. Being a Brain could be something transient and not as stressful if anyone could lose it at anytime. Less meaningful devotion towards the lineup necessary as well. On the other hand though, screw updating the Gym Leader History and Frontier lineups with all that garbage. Actually screw updating Leader History altogether.

I don't like the Palace or Pyramid rules at all, respectively too random by far and not a fan of leasing out free legends outside of temporary tourneys or events, though I realize that may be an unpopular opinion. I also think the Tower doesn't make much sense in a region meant for an alternative to the style of battles we see everyday in URPG.

My suggestion is trimming down the 7 facilities down to 5 and possibly using the Sinnoh names as a result, but keeping similar rulesets. The current concept seen here requires 8 active leaders, which is a lot for URPG right now. This is 2 more than a regular Gym region and half of those regions aren't even completely filled.

IMO Factory and Pike/Arcade are classics, tweak 'em as necessary and keep 'em in. Keep the Multi idea as Dome/Castle and add a twist, perhaps Wonder Launcher if using Castle, as filling a gym as a duo has been requested quite a bit in the past, but could use a little extra rule to keep it different. Combine your Tower and Hall into just Tower, and dub it the "almost competitive" facility which tests the Brain's versatility in Double, Triple, Rotation, whatever. Make the fifth facility PokéSwap or Devo or some fun, rarely seen rule that people like but doesn't give away free 'mons/EMs like Factory.

This would only require 6 leaders and is much more sustainable in my opinion, without giving away too much as, from what I understand, these rulesets would be usable whenever.

 

Yea that's been mentioned before and I like it too. I forgot to add it to the updated version (which I'll edit it in after this post), but yea, if one fails at challenging the Frontier Brain, one must re-earn their 3 wins before challenging again.

Yea I have similar feelings about this as well.

Those are too random, but Arcade/Pike aren't? Also, with Pyramid's updated rule set, no one would be renting a legendary to the extent of having one in their stats, so there'd be no leasing. And Tower (which I'll get to more on later in the post) is the thing built up to, the main Brain people work toward.

Think of it more as 6 facilities being akin to the gyms of a region and the B. Tower being the E4. Also, I think we'd have an easier time filling these up than Gyms (as I explain more down below).

Did you mean Dome/Palace (which is: roll a move out the 2 you send to ref, i.e. which ruleset did you want to mix with Dome)?

The B. Tower is suppose to be what battlers all build up to (one needs to have received 3 symbols [or defeat 3 Brains] in order to challenge the Tower Tycoon), with a possible extra prize of winning a Complex mon for defeating the Tycoon.

I do kind of like giving Hall's ruleset to Tower (the roll a 3 die for Triple/Rotation/Double), and then having Hall be Pokeswap/Devo. It gives Tower less of a "another E4/OI Pummelo Island" type of feel, and it's own, distinguished Battle Frontier feel.

Lastly, I don't think needing 8 active members to fill these roles is too much and there are a couple reasons I say this:

1. I'd think a person could have a gym and still be a Frontier Brain, like how now I own Cerulean and also Navel of the OI.

2. It may be difficult to fill a full region of gyms at the moment, but that's due to type restrictions + there being 6 regions to fill meaning we need 36 active members to fill all of the gyms, where this only needs 8 total (who can also be gym leaders) and I feel like there's more than enough activity/drive to fill the entire BF.

 

hey guys just want to preface this by saying love love love all the suggestions and enthusiasm. so many great ideas and very healthy discussion on discord and here which is so good to see. Just going to give my comments (in red) on most up to date version liam posted:




Battle Frontier (to either implement into, or take over Orange Islands)

All battles will be 4v4 - 6v6, SM Private Full/Preview (maybe give battle style as an option for the leader?), Helds On, No Weather, Standard Terrain, Slp/Frz/Eva/Acc/OHKO/Legendary Clauses on, unless specified otherwise.


In order to challenge a Frontier Brain, one must have won 3 battles using their format with any other member. If one looses a match to a Brain, one must win another 3 battles in order to challenge that Brain again.

Perfect, but specify three different members maybe?

Battle Arcade/Pike: Players choose their teams with items and give to ref. Ref will then announce the teams (if preview) and then roll 3 6(7?)-sided dice. First die rolled is for the leader, second die rolled is for the challenger, third die rolled is for the field. Rolls follow suit:

1 – Weather: Sun*, Sand*, Rain*, Hail*, Fog*
2 – Entry Hazards: Stones**, Spikes**, Toxic Spikes**, Sticky Web**
3 – Terrains: Electric*, Psychic*, Grassy*, Misty*
4 – Status: Paralyze**, Burn**, Poison**, Sleep**(?)
5 – Items: Helds Off*, Helds Swapped*, All Given Sitrus Berries*, All Given Toxic/Flame Orb/Iron Ball/Mail*
6 – Other: Trick Room*, Poké-Swap*, Wonder Room*, Clear All Rolls* (and/or Reverse All Rolls* ?)
7 (?) – Volatile Status: Leech Seeded**, Rooted**, Aqua Ring**, Tormented**, Taunted**, Confused**


* Applicable to the entire field even if rolled on an individual.
**Applicable to both individuals if rolled for the field.

After rolls are finished and everything finalized, players choose their leads and begin.

Side note: Effects like weather, terrain (e.g. electric, or grassy, etc), and trick room are in effect the whole battle. If a Pokémon uses a move (e.g. Rain Dance, Trick Room, Electric Terrain, etc.) they will last as long as they would appropriately, but the field will return to whichever was rolled for that battle; i.e. Battle has Hail and Trick Room, battlers use Sunny Day and Trick Room, the Sun shines bright and the dimensions return to normal for 4/5 turns.

Another side note: Effects like Taunt/Torment/Confusion have timers as per normal and can be nullified if the mon is switched out as per normal.

Also also, effects are applicable where appropriate; i.e. Steel mons can't be poisoned, Electric mons can't be paralyzed, etc.

Not really convinced on this one. I think it seems a bit overcomplicated and could be quite messy especially when things like leech seed come into play. Could still work with it though. My suggestion is too easy to exploit with Heal Bell so this is probably our best shot. I will suggest removing the 7 side though. And also preferably removing fog from weather because that is very uncompetitive. Also, go with Pike for name definitely to keep in line with original frontier.

Battle Dome: Multi-Battle – needs two leaders at a time and two challengers in order to battle.

This one will be very hard to progress with I imagine, but a fun battle style anyway.

Battle Pyramid: Players will choose their teams of 5 and send to ref. The ref will then publically roll 3 different legends for each player. Players will then choose their legends privately to the ref and use the UltraDex as the legends' stats. Mega Ray Clause is ON.

(?)Wild Pokémon: Every turn there is a chance of a wild Pokémon attacking each team. Ref rolls from a list of Pokémon and then a list of moves to decide which Pokémon attacks using what to whichever team.

ok 100% remove the wild Pokemon aspect. That would be so messy lol

If you want to go ahead with rolling 3 legends (which I like best, provided mega clause is on), then the legends should be rolled publicly before teams are decided. From experience, I can tell you that battling legends in the higher battling tiers, requires at least 2-3 Pokemon on your team specific to the opponent's legend so you stand a fighting chance. It just prevents the legends being too centralising.

Battle Factory: Using Budget Tourny tier's, ref will roll 2 Tier 1's, 2 Tier 2's, an 2 Tier 3 mons (? could use Syn's original Tier 4, Tier 3, Tier 2, Tier 1, Tier 4, Tier 3, which would give a more diverse team of mons not always seen) for both the leader and the challenger. Battlers will use the UltraDex as their "stats" (i.e. every mon is fully EM'd by URPG standards).

Love this. Think dice rolled should follow my original suggestion of t4, 3, 2, 1, then either 4, 3 or 1, 2 just so that people are encouraged to use lower tiers and for more diversity which is the entire point of factory. Also, all mons have access to all moves, like the factory tourney and that fits more thematically with the idea of the battle factory imo.

Battle Palace: For each turn, the trainer must send two moves for their Pokémon. Which move will be executed is rolled by the ref.

<3

Battle Hall: Battle format is rolled, by the ref, between Triple Battle, Rotation Battle, and Double Battle prior (or after?) to teams being sent to ref.

(?)Or: Navel battle rules with Pokeswap, similar to the previous Naval Tourny?

This one seems the most tame and a bit uninteresting imo. If we're going with Hoenn frontier then it should be Arena not Hall (not big change). The Arena in Hoenn had the weirdest rules where your Pokemon battles in 1v1s and is assessed on the damage your moves deal, how accurate your moves are and how much health your Pokemon has left. Could try make rules around that? Or just come up with some random other rules if anyone has interesting suggestions.

Battle Tower: Challenger must have defeated 3 minimum Battle Frontier Heads in order to challenge. E4 rules apply.

Yeah, I like this. Although it might become a situation with the OI head gym, w/e it's called, that gets challenged literally never. I do like the idea of this being the final frontier so to speak.

Rewards: Each Frontier Brain battle receives the same pay as a Gym battle (Battle Tower equivalent to E4 battle?), and a Move Voucher (or DC Pass?) is rewarded to the challenger when they defeat a Frontier Brain for the first time. A Complex mon is awarded to a challenger who defeats the Tower Tycoon (?).

I agree with the sentiment that no need for extra pay. BP might also be unnecessary but could be useful instead of giving a DC Pass which is a bit lame imo. If we use BP then have that exchange directly for Mart vouchers/DC Passes/Mega Stones maybe? Definitely no need for another fully fleshed out currency though.

I like the idea of a Complex Pokemon as a prize for defeating all Heads.

Battle Arcade/Pike and the Arcade Star/Pike Queen give the Luck Symbol
Battle Dome and the Dome Ace give the Tactics Symbol
Battle Pyramid and the Pyramid King give the Brave Symbol
Battle Factory and the Factory Head give the Knowledge Symbol
Battle Palace and the Palace Guardian/Maven give the Spirits Symbol
Battle Hall and the Hall Matron give the Guts Symbol
Battle Tower and the Tower Tycoon give the Battle Frontier Trophy


Determination of Frontier Brains:

1. They apply and are picked by an League Organizer similar to Gym Leaders.

I like Nit's suggestion of a tourney to determine leaders, but could do normal application either way. Tourney would hype it up though and help flesh out what rules need tweaking.

2. After a challenger defeats a Frontier Brain, they have the option of taking over, similar to Legend Defender.

Not really a fan of this tbh.

In either case, we could introduce the Battle Frontier as/during an Invitational/Tourny and the winners of certain sections become the first Frontier Brains. Maybe first to defeat 3 in a certain format becomes that Brain and first to defeat 3 Brains can become the Tower Tycoon?

I'd prefer a bracket tourney for interested Heads. If 4 peope want to head the Tower then do a normal bracket. There won't be too much interest in being Heads that mini tourneys to determine Heads should only take like 2-3 weeks I would say, especially if you could only apply for like 2-3 positions (but obviously only be successful in one).