The Library

So for Lord only knows how long, the Library and Archives have been sitting, unused. People have posted possible recommendations of stories to be listed, but because no one ever really bothered to put together a Committee for judging submitted stories, no stories have been put into the Library.

In all honesty, I think the Library as it is now needs a definite overhaul. First of all, the fact that only the so-called "best" are accepted feels elitist to me. After all, the Library is called just that; the Library, not the Elitist Archive of Only the Most Awesomest and Epic Stories Ever Written. Giving it the title of Library kind of implies that just by existing, ALL stories should have the same opportunity to be listed. A real-life library carries a huge amount of variety, everything from really good stuff to crappy things 99% of people wouldn't touch with a 50-foot pole. The library staff isn't there to judge what's "good enough" to put into the library; they amass all sorts of work and let their members decide what's good and interesting enough for them to read. Shouldn't our Library function in the same manner?

Basically, I propose we change the Library so that any time someone feels like it, they can submit a story they've written (at any time, no limits on how long ago the story was posted) and have it logged in the Library. The Library should be more of an archive of all the stories we have instead of only listing those deemed "worthy". Because it wouldn't be at all selective in regards to who gets listed, we can remove the Emblem system and incorporate one that encourages people to just write, instead of trying to get into some hallowed hall of story-dom.

We could call them Goals. Every time you get a story submitted that meets that Goal, you could get a prize. For example, a Goal of 35 stories listed in the Library could get you a Daycare Pass or something. I already hear people saying how easily this system could be abused to get free stuff, but of course there'd be rules. One could be that you can only submit stories for Easist/Simple/Medium Pokemon once every x number of weeks. This would prevent people from banging out Magikarp, Caterpie, and Sewaddle stories every other day to rack up Goals.

We would also not give prizes that are too crazy. I don't think anything over Complex Pokemon or perhaps 10k in terms of monetary prizes should be awarded. We can have something maybe like this:

5 stories: 500
10 stories: 1k
15 stories: 3-pack of any Berry
20 stories: 3.5k
25 stories: Medium Mon
30 stories: 5K
40 stories: Complex Mon
50 stories: 10k + stuff

I dunno, this is just something I came up with off the top of my head to give an example. Once a person hits the maximum Goal (50 in this case), the prizes start over (so when the person has 55 stories submitted, they'd be able to claim 500 again, and so on).

Also, in order to help cut down on people trying to SPAM shorter stories and rack up Goals, we could say that Easiest and Simple stories are only partial stories; they could be half-points or something, so in order to get a full point towards your Goal, you'd need two Easiest stories submitted instead of one. Of course that sort of thing might be too much hassle to keep track of, but meh.

We have a nice idea with archiving the stories of the URPG, but as it is now, the section is useless and unused because it has standards that are too high. If a person has gone through the trouble of writing a story and they want it archived somewhere so that it can be read by lots of people (thus saving people the time of searching through pages if they want to read the story a year from when it was posted), they should have that right.

 

Theres a Library?!

 

Uh, 10k+stuff isn't a greater prize than a Complex mon or am I misreading?

Also, people can't just pump out 50 stories for 10k. It seems like a good idea if it was put into realistic terms.

 

I don't think the point is to write stories to earn money, it's to reward people who have made a large contribution of stories.

 

Like I said, the examples were just that, an example of how the prize system would work. I never intended for those to be final prizes.

The point of this isn't so people go "OMFG A FREE COMPLEX MON ALL I HAVE TO DO IS GET 50 STORIES IN THE LIBRARY!!!11!11!!" and then proceed to SPAM stories. It's not supposed to be a way to get free Pokemon, either. Saying that people can't do something in order to get the prize is kind of silly; people already write stories, don't they? Who's to say whether or not a person could write x number of stories, prizes or no? And you make it sound like the prize is the reason for doing the writing, which isn't what this is about at all. What this is about is to encourage people to write and submit their stories into the Library, where we can keep an archive of all of them. After all, you only get the prizes when the needed number of stories are in the Library. So even if you have 49 stories and that 50th gets Graded and you catch the Mon, if you don't submit that story into the library you don't get the prize.

In all honesty I don't even think there should be prizes except maybe things like ribbons or something for certain accomplishments. 50 stories written, 100 stories written, things like that. But meh, people like motivation, so there ya go.

EDIT: Or as Monbrey put it in the Blast chat, it's a reward system, not a prize/earning system. I LIEK TEH WAY HE WORDZ IT.

 

I really like this idea more than only submitting "new" stories, since a Library consists of older stories too.
However, some of the people who've wrote stories are no longer online, and hence, probably won't submit to be archived (and I personally, would like to see some of the older stories posted where I can read them).

Even without a prize system, it would be easy (though time consuming), to go through and organize all the stories that have been graded here and on PE2K. If you'd like help compiling a list, I'd be happy to go through and do one.

Perhaps there could be different things;
The Library - Stories submitted by active members and a prize system.
The Archives - All graded stories in a list, no prize system.

 

If you're going to do Rewards then do it right, or not at all =P

 

I think that the story section of both the BMG and PE2K serve as an archived section already, since you can just look at any story whether it was graded/passed/failed/etc. Just like comparing it to a library, they have books that many people like to pass over, or skim through to find something they actually want. Having a section of all except the ungraded stories would just be extra unneeded work. Though, if you really want to catalog every graded story, I had already started doing such for the BMG back when I made a List of Stories thread: here if that helps. And now as I write, I remember why I included such a section: so that writers could compare to what the "standards" of obtaining a certain Pokemon were.

And I agree that there really shouldn't be prizes, since the Pokemon captured are the reward for writing the story already.

If anything, we should rename the Library to something that reflects it's nature, because to my understanding, it IS supposed to be the "best of the best," where people feel good about reaching such heights, rather than be just another strip in the funny pages.

Oh and if I remember correctly, Scourge was telling me once upon a time that one of the duties of being a Councillor would be judging stories for the Library. I don't remember getting a memo for any submissions, but then again, I was gone for a while.

 

This is a great idea. There are many good stories in URPG out there, and while idk how many people would want to read them, creating a Library seems like a why not thing that would a) promote stories, b) reward writers for their continued efforts toward URPG Stories, and c) create a nice reading section for people that would want to read our fanfics.

I think a point system would be very helpful as far as rewards go. Make Easiest stories and etc worth very little, and reward stories that go for the bigger fish with exponentially bigger points in the point system. This way, spamming stories will only get you the smaller rewards, and it could end up taking dozens of Easiest stories to accomplish something done with a handful of Complex stories (just an example; we'd have to figure out the actual scale). If this system ends up being used, I would also suggest upgrading the rewards a little bit for the people that actually mean to contribute to the Stories section and the Library.

Also (as it much as it pains me and my almost 40 stories to say this), I suggest not allowing old stories to be dumped into the Library. Otherwise, veteran writers can claim a load of good stuff right off the bat. Maybe put a 'within this year/month' kind of limit.

Definitely loving this idea; I'm all for it.

 

Don't really have much to say here, but I figured I'd pop in and give my opinion.

The Library should definitely be the "Holy Grail" of the Story board, something that everyone should aim for. It should be hard to get in to, a real challenge. I like what Soro said: there's very little need for a dedicated story archive, because that's essentially what the Story boards themselves are. All that's missing is an index thread. The Library should be where the best of the best are kept, for the purposes of inspiration.

I love the idea of a reward system, it'll need to be adapted to whatever kind of Library is chosen (assuming one is) but it'd definitely encourage people who don't looooove writing to at least give it a shot.

Lastly, old stories should count, as long as they're submitted by their actual authors. It's not fair to exclude stories based on their age.

 

Index Thread -> The Archives.
That's more what I was suggesting.
Besides, it's ridiculously frustrating to go through more than 20 pages here and ONE HUNDRED AND FORTY on PE2K to find ONE story I'm looking for.


Perhaps the library should accept all submissions and Councilors/Head Graders/Whatever can go through and select which ones make it?
That's originally what the Library was, though, and from Jess' first post;

I agree with this, though there should be /some/ standards. This is more why I suggested stories that passed.
But if everyone wants to have it "specialized", then why not have like, a special shelf in the library with the best of the best? (Library's Recommendations).
For that, it could be a reward system for being hosted on the shelf.

 

I kind of like this, but mostly just for organizational purposes.

There could be an alphabatized list of authors and have their works in their section. It might be cool to see progress over time.

 

I know that I was gonna resurrect Soro/taras's plan to categorize the backlog at some point (perhaps thanksgiving break, or any other time I don't have to, like, do stuff... XD), and I could prolly help you out there.

However, from my (limited) knowledge of the dead library system, I know that it was meant to emphasize quality, not quantity. It was supposed to be incredibly hard to get even one story in the library (afaik, it was open for about three months and had no entries, if that serves as any reminder, in a period that included two/three writing contests and some generally enjoyable stories), and the maximum prize was listed at 20 stories. The requirements for entering, per story, were incredibly strict, and I'm pretty sure that there had to be something with counselors' approving each entry, and (again), a lot of stories weren't allowed to enter on the grounds that they weren't good enough. And by a lot I mean maybe five, tops, but that just shows that it was hard to even get nominated for counselor approval.

I think (shoot me if I get this wrong, by all means), that the library was meant to be some sort of super hard, lofty goal to be achieved, and status was supposed to be a thing of extreme honor 'r something, rather than a "Oh, hey, I wrote fifty stories for the URPG; most of them failed a few times, taking my complex mon, kthanxbai!" sorta thing, which I don't think we were aiming for. In my opinion, if we would resurrect the library, we ought to keep it somewhat the way it was. I could start categorizing the backlog for those who wanted organizational references (either on author/target mon; perhaps both if I can stop being a lazy idiot and actually do things... speaking of which, Soro, I'm getting on that grade if you'd just reply to my IM... D, and maybe we could go from there. Perhaps we could try running both, on a smaller scale for each?

[/not at all a symbol of authority]

 

Firstly, lol at your editting reason Kai XD

I love the idea of some form of complete organised Archive/Index, which is really what a library would be used for. Sorting in chronological order per author as Neon suggested would be cool.

As well as that, I still like the idea of having the top-tier amazing story system that the Library as it is currently is meant to represent. However the criteria is going to need to be lowered a little otherwise it's not going to go anywhere. No, we don't want any old story getting into that elite list. But right now there aren't any, and no-one feels confident enough to make any submissions, and have nothing to compare their quality to.

As for the rewards system, it's NOT prizes, and it's NOT a large amount of money/pokemon you can earn by writing stories. Consider it a thank you gift, the fruit basket an employee gets after 10 years with a company. Purely something so the URPG community can thank our talented authors for contributing the entertainment.

I see no reason for people not to be able to submit older stories to the archives/elite library, but I agree that these stories probably shouldnt be eligible for awards, or we at least set a timeframe for them, eg 6 months ago.

 

Considering being in the Library/Archive is a reward in itself as a sign of your story was that awesome or epic to be placed there to show the URPG that your writing skills are freaking amazing. Adding on prizes would kind of diminish that. If we did do prizes, they should be boosted a bit higher that 10K per 50 stories. I mean its not that hard to spam 50 Magikarp stories. The library, as dusty as it maybe be, is still a place of honor and should remain as such although they could put some more stories in since some people have writen amazing stories. Is money prizes were given out, It I think it should be based on the average of stories. Say a person wrote 10 stories all at 10,000 characters, then he should be rewarded 10K for those stories.

 

@ Mav: We've already agreed that lower-ranking stories would count less towards possible rewards than higher-ranking ones, silly .

As far as listing stories, why not change the titles around? Make the Library the general place where all the stories are kept track of, and have the Archive be the "best of the best" section? Makes more sense to me that way tbh. We can list the stories either a), alphabetically by author, b) alphabetically by story title, or c) by genre. It'd probably be easier to do it as either a or b really.

As for the Archives, like Monbrey said, one of the main reasons that there aren't any stories in the Library already is because the expectations are too high. Yes, we would only want to accept the really exceptional stories, but as it is now even really good stories like Kai's Ingrained (or my Monsters of the Machine, not tooting my own horn but people keep telling me how good it is) have a chance of getting listed. Another main reason is because there was never a group of people put together to actually judge submitted stories, so we'd need to get together some people who wouldn't mind reading over the stories (however long they might be) and decide what's good enough to be listed.

In terms of age, any story (as long as it's been Graded) should have a chance at being entered in both the Archives and Library.

As far as rewards go, I would say no to giving rewards for stories that make it into the Archive; that's an achievement that should be reward enough in itself. Getting x number of stories listed in the Library, though, could net you congratulatory rewards. Kinda like how Mon put it, as a thank-you for such contributions being made.

As far as older stories being put into the Library and counting towards possible rewards, I don't think that's something to worry about. I mean, whether it was done over the past year or will be met within six months, at some point you're going to meet the Goal and get the reward for x number of stories submitted to the Library. Why should it matter if you've already met the Goal (and thus already qualify for, say, 10k)? You'd get it in the future most likely, and really, it seems kinda silly to not say, "Thanks for all the work" for stories submitted in the past.

This coming from someone w/ only 29 stories, so I'd qualify, at the most, for maybe a Medium Mon or Daycare Pass or something lol.

Again:

Library = general list of organized stories
Archive = list of "the best" stories, submitted only after being reviewed by a panel of judges

 

A few thoughts:

• I would love to get a Library of some sort established.
• We did have a committee. We just had... three stories submitted.
• Removing date limit sounds good.
• If someone/s want/s to volunteer to edit/compile a list similar to Taras's story archives, I'd be happy to incorporate it into the Library as a reward-less Archives section.
• We put any story on the forum. We would put any story in this Library. There's really no difference between a "Library" as you're suggesting and the "forum", other than organizational coherence. So, what this idea basically does is... add work... without changing anything.
• The reward for writing many stories is captured Pokémon.
• Ignore the quality specifications, for a moment. If the Library is ever re-instituted, the rewards system will still circulate around Emblems. They already reward prolific writers--they just limit the rewards to prolific writers who move outside of their comfort zones.
  2 Emblems -> Hard Pokémon
  5 Emblems -> Complex Pokémon
  9 Emblems -> Demanding Pokémon
  14 Emblems -> Merciless Pokémon
  20 Emblems -> Mystery Prize?!?!
  (these prizes would be lowered if the quality specifications were lowered)
• There would be rewards for the "Archives" under your system. Not sure about rewards for general Library; it violates principles of previous goals with the Story Division, so that's a move that'd have to be considered carefully.

Haven't verified these with Kat, so she might disagree on some points.

 

Memememeememe...

...'s the kind of useless, utterly pointless, mindless kind of work that I've been missing as of late. If you like, I could add this to the Story List I have running... I just binged through 4 pages of BMG stuff and the night is still young. But god help me on PE2K... anywho, I wouldn't mind doing it, if I can? ^.^

 

We can still use the library as a source of inspiration while also including a wider variety of stories. Adjusting the criteria a little bit so good stories can be accepted, but the great stories will be prominent might be a solution. Something to consider though:

There was never a clear guideline for what is considered "the best" (at least I don't remember one xD). It's a vague and subjective term and the more it is used, the vaguer it becomes. It can lead to type of thinking where the "best" becomes unreachable.

So perhaps a basic criteria should be established? Such as "Sentence structure is varied and interesting; thought provoking themes; unique style (like Taras's story, The Box); smooth idea development; ect. It gives people something to aim for and the reviewers something to go by.

 

If we define "the best," it will be "a unique idea that is written with enough coherence to show off its value" or "an old idea pulled off in a new way."

Also, Kai, hunt down Taras's old list and start from there?