Expanding the Starter Kit

So I remember mentioning it when TPW was first opened, but I think it's important to get done at least before the summer.

First, I'd like to suggest changing the starting price from 3000 to 6500. This would mean that anyone who joined the URPG could purchase any Pokemon they wanted from the Mart, regardless of how their basic battles go.

Second, I was thinking it would be good to add a Daycare Pass. Most beginners don't buy Daycare moves that frequently and I think this would sort of draw attention to those sometimes important moves.

Then I thought it would be nice for the other sections of the URPG to get a little bundle thrown into the Starter Kit. This could include a Story Coupon, credits to the Park Shop (or maybe just like basics for a first run), and Contest Credits(or Pokeblocks).

I was thinking other people could come up with more solid giveaways for the Story, Park, and Contest section since I'm not very familiar with those. So let me know your ideas.

 

I like the idea. The 3000 you start with never seemed like enough, but at the same time 6500 almost seems like to much. I rarely have over that anyway xD 4500 seems like a reasonable amount personally.

I also like the idea of giving them something to help them with park/story/contests, but I have a suggestion. Maybe only let them pick one of three when they sign up, otherwise their time until they can build up a stable team will basically be given to him/her. Maybe let them pick from a park pass for the park. Or the B2B event thats happening right now, but give them a pass that will ony let them encounter basics in 1 normal run. I dont know that much about the other two sectioons, so any other people have ideas?

 

I don't think many members spend their first money on TMs. Actually I can't think of any members who would do that because it isn't really a rash thing to do. Also, for as far as I can tell, 3000 is just an arbitrary number to begin with, so why keep it?

Well, could you at least give me a reason for the shooting down of Story Tickets and Park Credits? I posted in the URPG Chat thread to avoid this sort of situation, but I think there should at least be a discussion for it. Also how do we know that giving CC is the best method of drawing attention to contests? Couldn't giving Pokeblocks be more engaging? Is this something that was discussed?

 

I think that we shouldn't make the limit too high, because then you could just buy a mart and basics abuse it and then just buy more marts like we've seen recently.

So I think that we should have 3000 +3500 worth of Park and TM coupons, so that we prevent new people from just building up mart teams.

Talking of basics abuse for marts, we had a massive discussion of basics doing no money on AIM a few weeks ago, has anyone followed it up with a thread?

 

It was decided that since Stories and the National Park are popular anyway, there's no reason we need to entice people to participate in those areas. There is no need for the current starter package to be changed - newbies aren't suffering in any way. $3,000 may seem arbitrary, but it's no less arbitrary than any other number that it could potentially be changed to. I don't believe they SHOULD be able to buy another Pokemon straight away, you should start with one and earn another. It's a STARTER pack, and doesn't need to be any more than that.

Story Passes are really only useful on very high ranked stores, as they reduce the character count required by a percentage. The percentage of an Easy/Simple story is much lower than that of a Stupefying story. As such, it really makes a very small difference to new writers who are attempting low-ranked stories, but makes a much larger difference for experienced writers on high-ranked stories. Providing a Story Ticket would give new people totally the wrong introduction to stories - we want to help improve their writing skills, not help them out with something that wouldn't otherwise meet requirements.

The Park has all sorts of various events/prizes/general etc where Park Credit is given out or won. The items available change for these events, and after a couple of battles newbies would have enough money to go for a run through the Park if they chose to anyway.

As for the basics abuse, no, I doubt we will make ALL basic battles worth $0. It's nearly impossible to balance the payment system in a way so that it can't be abused, but so that people who honour the system still get the money they are entitled to. However since it is becoming a serious issue we will keep a much more careful eye on it and persecute those who are abusing the system.

tl;dr We already discussed this and decided against it. If anyone has SPECIFIC changes that they think should/need to be made, with SPECIFIC reasoning for those changes, we will of course still consider it. But a general "lets have more stuff" discussion will go nowhere.

 

Okay, well fine. Specifics. I think specifically it should be at least raised from 3000 to 6500.

I think you guys are being a little silly in this regard. Every person starts off in the URPG with a basic, which means they're going to do basic battles right away. I just don't think it's fair that if you pick a basic like Abra, as opposed to say Scyther, it means that your next Pokemon purchase is limited. Both are equally viable Pokemon in the URPG and good choices for a starter. Or if their opponent didn't allow them to win their basics, they shouldn't really be penalized and be unable to buy any mon they want from the Mart. Okay, yea, they lost their basics, but I think everyone can admit they aren't real battles; most of them are entirely preconceived. Basics are a joke anyway, and I don't think anyone thinks their second mon is it all earned if they just need to run through more idiotic 1v1s. Also to your comment that they shouldn't be able to buy another Pokemon straight away: But the problem is they can, just not uniformly.

Plus, it's not like we're losing anything else. 3000 has no justification, while I'm offering a number with a viable reason.

 

I believe it was ATF that, not 5 posts before, said that the 3k was so they could afford any evo items they needed. Basically, the money we give them is purely so they are able to evolve their starter at the appropriate time. I personally, don't want to intervene past that. Its much better for them to learn things, such as, how much it will normally cost them to enter the National Park and how long a story should need to be to catch a pokemon in the Medium difficulty range, etc.

The reason I don't want to expand the starter kit is so they can learn how to URPG properly. We don't need to hold their hands through the whole thing. The only thing I MIGHT concede is the idea that we don't give enough money upon starting. Since it was made 3k when URPG first began, 1v1's have gone under serious scrutiny and are now almost totally condemned. Giving more money to easily buy a second pokemon would be nice.

 

Why not give an extra few 1000 to beginners? It won't be the biggest game breaking thing to happen to the URPG (I don't think anyway), it gives them more options to begin with, they can buy their Evolution items or lose their basics (if they have hopelessly terrible starters like togepi/abra) with out worrying about being short changed and having to resort to Fully evolved 1v1.

obviously I wasn't here at the start of URPG, but it seems like 3k was selected as to mimic the games, but as we know, URPG isn't made to mimic the games, We don't have to buy potions or pokeballs or full heals, we only have to buy TM's and other Pokemon and 3k to start with makes it difficult.

 

But, 3000 wasn't specifically chosen for that reason.

IF you had a one evo mon you would get 3,500 for losing all seven, which would be enough to buy any evo item except for Oval Stone and you can't pick Happiny as your starter anyway. And it would only be 500 extra not 3,000

If you had a two evo mon you would get 5,000 for losing all ten, and the most expensive combination is again Happiny with 7,000 who or the cheapest actual starter is I think Togepi which is 6,000. Either way 8,000 is greater than the amount you need.

And, honestly, if anything, evolution items should be a reason to boost the starting price even more, really.

 

Personally I think $3000 to start with is fair. As ATF stated and WTP repeated, it gives people enough to purchase any evolution item they need for their starter. Beyond that. Let's assume someone started with a Pokemon that evolves only once and doesn't need an evolution item, Ledyba for example, if they lose all seven of their first battles they end up with a Ledian and an additional $3,500. There are plenty of mart Pokemon that can be purchased for $6,500 or less. Not to mention they could write for a Pokemon as well.

They way I see it, URPG is a role-playing game. Hence it being called URPG and not just U. Is it really a realistic role-play if right off the bat you get a starter and then can get any Pokemon you want right away? Once you have been around a while, there are plenty of ways to get Pokemon fairly easy. That doesn't mean it should be easy from the start. The only way I could see justifying an increase in starting cash would be to removed from the mart the Pokemon you aren't allowed to start with such as Dratini and Bagon. They can't be your starters so you shouldn't be guaranteed to get them even if you lose all your first battles. They way it is now you can't get them as your second Pokemon unless you win a decent amount of your battles.

Besides all of that, there are people around that have NFE Pokemon that are happy to battle new players. I think the main issue we are looking at here comes from losing Basics battles. At a certain point there is no drawback to losing a basic battle. Early on if you lose you come up short on your next purchase, but after you have trained a few Pokemon and played in some FFAs and gotten use to at least the battles in URPG you generally have enough cash that instead of looking at it as coming up short you look at each loss as "That's $500 I didn't have before." You can make $3,500 to $5,000 off just losing basics for someone to evolve their Pokemon.

Perhaps a good fix there could be, much like how basics don't pay on a OHKO, have basics not pay if one said is obviously throwing the match. At that point it would fall to the refs to decide if someone was throwing the match or not. Just a suggestion.

 

Not enough money? You get $3000 for the starter and then an extra sum from the basics on top of that (which could be anything from $3,500 to $10,000). There's your $6,500 for Pokemon right there. You're basically asking us to give 9.5k to newbies. EDIT: Derp didn't see Sormeki say the exact same thing. Sorry xD

ATF pretty much summed up my entire thoughts - I think give the Contest Credit alongside the starting $3000 (or that might have already changed, not sure) for sake of organisation, but cap it at that. The life of a Pokemon Trainer isn't meant to be luxurious :3

MOAR EDIT:

I've always thought this should be the case. I hate reffing basics battles where it's literally "Eevee, commit suicide by using Tail Whip twice!" or even worse, the person OHKOs on the second turn by doing a stupid move turn 1 "Pikachu, use Growl on Magikarp, then Thunderbolt it to death".

 

Where's the harm in that? what's wrong with giving the newbies more options to kick start their URPG time with more options than we had? if they lost their basics under the current scheme they would have 6.5k at least, even then that's not considering any evolution items, which would bring it down to 3.5k.

If someone was unfortunate to be in that position then they would have to be do 1v1 Fully Evolved, which as we know is against the rules unless they have no other pokemon. So why not make the rule absolute and abolish the Circumstance that requires the exception?, which is easily done by giving them more money.

Honestly I see no reason why it shouldn't be considered, It doesn't negatively affect anyone else if they get an extra few 1000...

 

While I do think you make a good point here, I still don't believe giving new players more money is the proper way to solve it. In this situation let's say someone starts with an Eevee, and loses all seven battles. This leaves them with $6,500. Now, there is nothing saying they have to purchase the evolution item at the point. They can wait on it. But let's assume they do because, let's be honest, they more than likely will because new players often haven't taken a full grasp of strategy. That is something that comes with more experience.

So, let's say they evolve into Espeon because Espeon is best Eeveelution. They now have $3,500. Which is not enough to purchase a new Pokemon. Leaving them with one fully evolved Pokemon and thinking to themselves, "I wonder if I can get a do over?" Now instead of throwing more money at them to avoid this issue wouldn't it make more sense to lower the cost of some of the mart Pokemon to around $3,500? If we look to the games for example, one's second Pokemon is often something like a Rattata, or a Pidove, or a Bidoof. These can make some decent Pokemon to get as a second Pokemon and upon losing all the battles to evolve them (assuming you still have not gotten better at this whole Pokemon thing), you end up with $3,500 to $5,000. Enough to give another go at these more common Pokemon or maybe even give something a little stronger a go.

Again, that is just a suggestion. I understand we aren't based solely on the games and that we are our own little thing. However, regardless of that, those types of Pokemon do make decent and believable second Pokemon for a new trainer. And it makes for a fair environment. The trainers that do better have quicker access to new Pokemon where as the ones that are not as good at battling don't get as many options but do still have some options that can turn out to be pretty good.

 

But why would we lower the price of Pokemon instead of just giving them more money? The latter is a much easier solution. Also, I don't really think we should encourage new members to buy mons like Ratatta. I mean I'm all for using lesser used mons, but not until they have a grasp of the battling system. I think instead of making them buy a Pokemon they're going to regret later in their stats, we should encourage them to make smart decisions and allow them to buy good Pokemon like Bagon and Beldum.

Furthermore, not that I want this to turn into a Basics discussion, I think leaving it up to the ref to give/not give money to competitors is sort of putting the ref in an awkward position. Refs could easily give their friends money and not people they don't like. Especially since you don't have to put what happened in the battle in the log.

 

With the starter pack you get a little coupon that takes 50% off your first Pokemon purchase at the mart.

BOOM. Solved (I think)

 

I think we're also forgetting that newbies can continue battling with their fully evolved Pokemon and still get money. As long as someone's fully evolved Pokemon is their only one, the battle still pays. If there was any cap on the amount of money a new player could possibly get, then yes, the starting amount might need boosting. But as it stands, nothing stops them from keeping a single Pokemon until they have $100k.

I actually find it quite sad to see what a joke basic battles have become. Maybe it was just becayse I had the advantage when I joined of a mass of other newbies, but we all battled our basics to win, not purely to get money or evolve them. It was our only Pokemon, and we treasured it. The idea that evo battles or basics for money battles are "strategy" is laughable. At first, I didn't have AIM. I pushed and pushed for Forum battles which I struggled to win with my Charmander/Charmeleon. I picked up extra cash here and there, and had enough to buy a second Pokemon, which from memory was a Torchic. I guess the community is to blame for how common the generic forfeit/evo battle has become. It's no wonder basics have come under such scrutiny. Helping out newbies with extra cash or whatever else gets suggested from time to time is completely fucking pointless while we still have the idiots and douchebags abusing a system that would otherwise fully support them.

@Mubz
If I was going to concede to any idea yours would be it. Extra cash is too vague, and I can see lots of newbies just buying a TM for their basic straight away. A half-price coupon has the same effect, targeted exactly where we want it. And it doesn't take a genius to get half price on the most expensive mon, which are the pseudo-legends mentioned earlier as being the most helpful to a new player.

 

I don't understand. How many times can you honestly say you've seen a noobie buy a TM for their First Pokemon before buying a second? I can't think of anyone recently. So why would we force noobies to battle more 1v1s after they've completed their basics to get the funds to buy another Pokemon. Also, in the future I think i would prefer if you didn't call mine, and the person who's idea you later said you agreed with, "completely fucking pointless."

But I do agree that Mubz idea should get the desired effect. Usually officials are reluctant to add things whenever possible, but I guess if there is a fear that new members will spend the extra money on TMs instead of Pokemon a coupon would be a good solution.

 

I did, stupidly. I bought my Nidoking an Earthquake TM, before buying my second Pokemon which was a Zubat. It was two years ago sure, but still.

 

The point is, boosting the money gives them no more options than if it wasn't boosted - it's just a lazy fix. As has been said, if the Eevee in Sormeki's example evolved into Espeon, there's not enough for another Pokemon, and all of that person's battles will still pay. Trusting that people won't abuse this by persuading the newbie not to get another Pokemon so the other person can get easy money, where's the problem limiting the newbies?

There are also Stories, which are a viable way to get mons. Quite a few popular mons sit in the Easiest and Medium categories, so they're not out of reach. Story Mons > Mart mons anyway, it's usually agreed.

It's not a fear of that, it's the fact that 3k is more than enough. You're pretty much saying "Why should people have to battle to get money?". Oh, I don't know, maybe because that's the whole point of the URPG? :/