The Gauntlet

You're all overreacting. The term 'pseudolegendary' is a fan-made term (thanks Bulbapedia). A Pokemon's lore or stats does not determine how powerful or broken it is. Take Entei or Articuno for example. These Pokemon are REAL legendaries. Now I admit, I've never seen one in use in the URPG, or most legends at that, but if you follow competitive battling outside of the realm of URPG, you would know these Pokemon aren't really effective in standard OU (or even UU...). Now, the URPG isn't like cartridge battling, but what does this tell us? It tells us that just because a Pokemon is considered 'legendary' in lore doesn't reflect its capability in battling. Plus, if everyone had Articunos and Enteis in URPG, I'm pretty sure they would suck and be a poor man's Togekiss or Infernape.

You could also say that these Pokemon are overpowered because of their base stat totals. Well really, that does not mean anything. A Pokemon's power is determined by more than just that. An effective Pokemon is actually the summation of its moves, abilities, stats, typing, and maybe even some other factor. Imagine a Pokemon has a base stat total of 800, but you don't know if it is broken until you know its other traits. It's only move could be Tackle and Ability be Pick Up. If you're going to argue that these 5 or so Pokemon in question are broken just because of BST, you're 'doing it wrong'. Additionally, back to cartridge battles, Celebi and Jirachi are allowed in OU battles, and their totals are 600. Dragonite was even BL in GSC. Therefore, BST is not a good indicator at all.

If you have played URPG as long as I have, you would know that these Pokemon are no different than others. If you're going to ban Garchomp, Metagross, and company, you might as well ban Infernape, Starmie, and Jolteon. Actually, it's been done before:

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2488451&postcount=1

If these Pokemon were so dominant in URPG, then how come all 5 'pseudolegendaries' are not on every E4 team or E4 battle? The answer is because there is nothing special about them besides the fallacy you have created for them in your minds. I play to win, and if Garchomp guaranteed me more wins, I would use it more. However, I don't think I've used Garchomp in one of battles in over a year, because I know how ineffective it is in the URPG. It's a one trick pony. Atleast Infernape can Will-o-Wisp things, outspeed things, attack both physically and specially, Stealth Rock, keep momentum with U-turn, use Encore, Taunt, and two very good STABS, boost both physically and specially, and even defensively, AND has a recovery move. Garchomp can uh...Swords Dance, two decent STABs, decent speed. None of you have explain what exactly is wrong with having them besides 'omg every team is gonna have Garchomp'

 

Why don't we solve that problem them by changing the first rule from "No Extra Moves!" to "All Extra Moves" as Magikchicken has suggested to me?

 

^^^ 3 posts above: Pidge totally missing the poitn

^^ 2 posts above: Mr. Vick gently reminding Pidge that we're not out to bash pseudolegs, just keep the tournament fairly balanced so that it can't ONLY be won by people with mons that
a) are pseudo-legendary, or
b) are fast and have ice moves as part of their base learnset.

^ 1 post above: HKim winning URPG forever by proposing a new way of balancing it while not making Pidge rage about pseudolegendaries 'not really being broken.'

I approve that.

 

That could be cool for another tournament, but I feel like that defeats the purpose of this one.

 

I don't see how you're actually making a case. You've discussed that psuedolegend is a fan-made term, and threw in some hypotheticals. You also linked us to rules for a different tournament.

This tournament =/= That tournament. In this one, pseudolegends were banned. This was done because without the use of at least one or two TM's, a lot of other Pokemon can't counter them. I'm somewhat notorious for my Infernape, and it has no way of countering any of the Dragon-type pseudolegends without TM's.

You suggest banning Infernape, Starmie and Jolteon too? I would really love to see any of those, without any EM's, take on Garchomp. Jolteon in particular would be absolutely brilliant there.

EDIT: All EM's seems the complete opposite of this tournaments intention. Let everyone do anything? Or restrict people to the bare minimum while maintaining and even playing field, to really test EVERYONE'S skill.

 

Suggested ~3 days ago.

Session Start (DoIPutNameHere:niteethan): Sun Nov 14 23:15:22 2010 -0500
[23:30] Zoa: why dont you let anyone rent any pokemon they want
[23:30] Zoa: and them have all moves
[23:30] niteethan: We considered that
[23:30] niteethan: But realised people would just abuse it
[23:30] niteethan: If you don't like the idea
[23:30] niteethan: That's finer

 

The purpose of the Tournament was...

All EMs and No EMs both accomplish that objective.

EDIT: All EMs, however, do not restrict the movepool of all pokemon, allowing the under-funded noob with a great strategic brain to win a few against the hardened, rich veteran URPGers.

 

QFT.

Also, credit for the idea I suggested to HKim goes to WTP in the first place, since we were discussing the tourney on AIM a couple days ago (and just now.)

 

I feel that as it is still my tournament, I shoulb be allowed some say in how this goes. If someone wants to have a whole EM tournament, be my guest, but it completely defeats the purpose of this one.

 

Yeah I suppose that's true, it just seems like newer players that are still getting used to the idea of even having all their level up moves usable in a battle will be completely overwhelmed by suddenly being able to use all their potential moves.
It's all well and good for us that have had more practice getting familiar with what our pokemon can use and how it works, but even to those with a really great strategic mind will find themselves overwhelmed by advanced players throwing out the best potential strategies they've found to be tried and true.

Not that I'm completely opposed to this idea xD I'm just making it clear what I thought was the point of this tournament.
Having all EM's will probably be fine, and totally beats the other rules and allowing pseudos.

Pseudos aren't broken in general, but they are completely unbalanced against the majority of pokemon without any EMs.

 

Nothing should change.

This is was a No-EM's, No-Pseudolegends tournament. A few people didn't like that. So you cried and had it changed.

This shouldnt be an All-EM's tournament. It shouldnt have pseudolegends allowed. Not for any other reason than THAT'S WHAT THE RULES WERE.

When there's an All-EM's tournament that allowed pseudos, join it. This isn't it.

 

Garchomp doesn't have Wonder Guard. Neutral hits can 2-3HKO. Which also sparks another point I'd like to bring up.

All level-up move battles would be silly, because there would be little depth to them with limited movepools. You may see the occasional Sleep Poweder or something, though.

Your side is actually the one that is supposed to make the case. There has been no precedent for the banning of 'pseudolegendaries', therefore the burden of proof lies within the group that is trying to make the change towards banning them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_burden_of_proof

Jolteon? I personally would use Gyarados or Gliscor, but you can use Jolteon against Garchomp if you really want.

I'm going to give the credit idea to Marth:

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/forum/showthread.php?t=99110

You don't own a tournament, you just run it. Besides it was never approved...

[23:24] Zoa: i guess haze was under the impression you already approved it
[23:24] Zoa: by ace trainer's wordings
[23:24] HKimF: Sigh
[23:24] HKimF: And I was under the impression that Haze approved it.

---

I'm fine with the tournament if all Pokemon were allowed, whether they have every move or only level-up moves, but I know which one would be more interesting and require more though.

 

Monbrey here has kindly highlighted how this tournament has been ruined.

The tournament was meant to be for people who are new to the forums, for them to have a fun time. But it has been the veterans that have ruined it for everyone else except for themselves. This selfish action shows us how despite BMG saving this URPG by introducing well over a hundred new members, it appears their opinions mean very little.

 

Uh...Why? I'm not quite sure I understand. If someone made an event that was approved through mis-communication where you could claim any Complex or lower Pokemon, you could say the same thing:

"This is was a free Complex or lower Pokemon event. A few people didn't like that. So you cried and had it changed to Simple or lower.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT JUST DON'T CLAIM A POKEMON!!!"

The BMG URPG branch has been up for a while. I fully support BMG-ers, I actually like some of them better than PE2K-ers. This may come to a surprise to you, but I actually defend BMG-ers all the time. Especially when people use the term 'BMG noob'. Anyone remember the first BMG vs PE2K FFA? Yeah, I was in it, and I played for BMG side, whether I could choose or not, and we won, and I love to bring it up when someone complains about 'BMG Noobs' to rub it in the PE2K-ers face. The following thread may or may not show that point as well:

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=75861

So don't even start about me not caring about newer members. Your opinions do matter, but sometimes they are misguided.

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=63641
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=62965
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=74109
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/showthread.php?t=76510

You may agree or disagree with some of the official decisions above, but if you agree to at least one of them, you may see where we are coming from. Just because the masses find something to be okay, doesn't necessarily really mean it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

That said, if you want to have a friendly debate on the matter, my PM box should be open, or you can find me on AIM. I'm open minded. Maybe you could convince me otherwise?

 

This thread has become a fun ride of interesting discussion and lively debate. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, the tournament was not approved and so we're going to close sign-ups as is the usual process.

Ace can pitch the tournament again to any URPG Moderator/Official and if they approve it, he can create a new tournament. Similarly, any URPG member can pitch a tournament idea in the same manner and if they're approved, can create a tournament sign-up thread.

Thank you for your patience.


Thread - Locked

 

Just popping in to say something.

If this tourney was meant for new people, why is everyone allowed then? You even asked me to join.

I find it funny how you are saying "it has been the veterans that have ruined it for everyone else except for themselves" when I don't even know who first proposed the idea. I'm pretty sure almost all of the original Pe2kers had no idea what is going on as well. Just because a few vets have something to say, doesn't mean it represent the entire community. And by saying that we are selfish just because of one or two people is even more offensive and disrespectful. :|

In the first place, this tourney was approved due to miscommunication which I have no idea how it is possible to miscommunicate for two days. Besides that, this is your tourney, which means you shouldn't have changed the entire tourney just because the participants/vets are criticizing it. Topping off, you supposedly co-run this with Crazy, which meant that you should have discussed it with Crazy before changing anything major. But apparently that was not the case.

I really wouldn't have post this since Harry already locked the thread. But your post really pisses me off. :|

 

So every single veteran ruined this tournament. Every single one. Even myself, who wasn't involved with running the tournament? Well I'm sorry that I ruined this for you. If you wanted a tournament where you had no veterans involved why didn't you just find some way to do that? (I'll give you a hint: there is already something in place that veterans cannot participate in)

And I agree with Ataro on everything. Especially about the your post pissing me off part.