Gym Tournament 2014 - Round Two

If you really want to get into semantics:

It is honestly not that hard to give a date.

Also smo stop being rude

 

For the sake of clarity, this round will end at 8am GMT +9:30 on the 20th of January, approximately ten days from when the Elamite v Synthesis battle was announced.

 

6v6
X/Y Private Preview
Items On
No Weather / Default Terrain
SLP/FRZ/OHKO/ACC/EVA Clauses On

Virbank City Gym Leader WinterVines vs Mistralton City Gym Leader Ash K.

Winter: Scolipede, Crobat, Drapion, Gengar, Tentacruel, Nidoking
Ash: Charizard, Dragonite, Gliscor, Salamence, Sigilyph, Skarmory

Props to Ebail for the log format that I can just copy paste, & shame on all y'all for not having a log for me to c/p from this thread. ;( First roll of the match, for Icy Wind from Gengar onto Gliscor, missed. Stuff happened, I forgot stuff as per usual, rolls didn't happen when needed. Ash won. The petition to ban Flying (or Ash) from gym tourney next year begins.

Ash wins and gets $4,000 + advances
Winter gets $2,000
Me gets $4,000​

 

If you ban Flying, he'll just go to Opelucid / Blackthorn for the duration of the tournament.

 

well the problem is flying not ash

and it was a joke anyway

 

Next year we should all take Rock/Ice/Electric Gyms

 

There will be a one week extension. The round will now end at 8am GMT +9:30 on the 27th of January.

 

Ataro and Elysia have permission to move their battle to the forum, if they wish. There will be no extension to the round.

 

6v6
X/Y Private Preview
Items On
No Weather / Default Terrain
SLP/FRZ/OHKO/ACC/EVA Clauses On

Synthesis vs Smores

Synthesis: Scolipede, Galvantula, Accelgor, Beedrill (Mega), Scizor, Volcarona
Smores: Cradily, Roserade, Breloom, Whimsicott, Sceptile (Mega), Rotom-Mow

Smores made some good plays including completely shutting down Mega-Beedrill, but overall Syn's Bug type advantage was enough to maintain a lead and take victory.

Synthesis wins and gets $4,000
Smores gets $2,000
I get $4,000

 

@Ataro; @Elysia;

What ended up happening between you two? I think I remember a battle being started or something, what had happened in the battle?

 

We never started a battle. We scheduled a time three weeks ago, Ataro didn't make it (not sure why, but I attribute that to my not being able to receive offline IM's), and now Ataro is free when I'm in class and I'm free when he has work because thirteen hour time difference.

I thought we could maybe try a forum thing, but Ataro felt that four days wouldn't be nearly enough time, and I'm inclined to agree.

We also have a fantastic streak of logging on just as the other has logged off.

 

Okay, here's what I propose happens based on the information I have been given. Feel free to comment/discuss/scream at me as appropriate.

I'm leaning towards passing Ataro on, for the following reasons. It's true that he missed the first planned time, but according to my maths and the time, it was in a time that was very disadvantageous for him to begin with. In addition to this, after missing the meetup, Ataro went above and beyond to try and schedule a second one, going so far as to list all times in the next week that he would be available and allowing Elysia free choice. Finally, it appears that the second battle didn't happen because of Elysia being busy in real life (I know how that goes), and I think there would be hurt feelings all around if Elysia was passed and then could not make it the battles in the final.

I apologise that we've come to this, perhaps I should start asking for timezones when running tournaments so that these issues can be detected much earlier.
@Ataro; @Elysia; Have I missed anything? Do either of you (particularly Elysia) find this resolution too unfair? I assure you I won't think less of either of you if you have any complaints in regards to the way this has been handled. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to discuss this in the open forum.

 

I will begin by saying that I understand that your judgment in this case will be, for all extents and purposes, final, and my protests probably will not change anything. I accept your ruling regardless of whether it is in my favor or not, but I would at least like to offer rebuttal/explanation to certain points. I apologize if I sound irritated.

I haven't been contacted about anything in this matter at all, nor have I been asked to give any information, so I suppose I can at least give my side?

Actually, it was scheduled at 11pm my time, approximately nine hours before I was scheduled to move back into uni. Given that a tourney battle would probably take anywhere from three to five hours, this would end at sometime between 2am and 4am my time. This time was around 9 am to 1pm for Ataro (we exchanged timezones and I've forgotten them, but it was something around thirteen hours/horribly inconvenient), which seemed to be like a pretty fair tradeoff for him. I assume I was contacted in offline IM why this was an issue, but I can't receive those on my client and blah blah blah. tl;dr: I would argue that the time was horrendously inconvenient for me, and yet I showed up and ended up waiting four hours for a no-show anyway.

First: Ataro gave me a list of times for the upcoming week. I also gave him a list of times for the upcoming week and gave him free choice, and almost all of them were when he was at work/horrendously inconvenient morning hours (and if you think I'm complaining about that, read the second point first I guess?). I'd prefer if you at least acknowledge the latter half instead of passing it off like I just said "nope can't do it sorry."

Second: The list of times that I received was basically something like this:
-- around 12am my time. Given the previous estimate that a tourney battle ranges between three to five hours (possibly less, depending on how quickly I get crushed, but okay), this ends around 3 and 5am my time, approximately three hours before I plan to get up for my morning classes. Ideally not an option, and also there tends to be a dearth of refs during the American night, so really, really un-ideal.
-- around 9am my time, which is actually exactly when my morning classes start
-- around 1 pm my time, which is when my afternoon classes start!

There were some assorted weekend times that we attempted to schedule. I offered Ataro most of Saturday and logged on for around seven hours that day, which was basically when he was at work/sleeping. Ataro offered me most of Sunday, which was when I was running around doing summer interviews and labwork, and then catching up on homework and also sleeping.

Hopefully a moot point by now but I just wanted to address that I'm really not sure where the "appears" comes from, and I wish I'd been contacted about this earlier. As in, like, any time earlier than "hi sorry you're disqualified."

I literally log on for hours at a time every day and have lengthy conversations with Ash/conversations involving Ash/in chats with Ash/watching Ash battle/I almost reffed LD for Ash, except then Felly couldn't challenge. Not so much with Syn, but we tend to synch pretty well as well. I don't think you really understand just how crippling a thirteen hour time difference can be.

In terms of my apparently-questionable activity, which is something I'm not aware of, I've actually graded/reffed more in the period of the time I was supposed to battle Ataro than I did for all of last semester combined. I shit you not.

Also, I feel like there's something to be said that you will literally have given a person byes to the final round of a tournament. I get that it was on accident and that having one battle versus none is hardly a difference, but this kind of boils down to prize for literally copy/pasting a lineup and not showing up to a battle lol.
Okay yeah that part where I apologized for sounding irritated still stands and I'm sorry if I sound pissed but that's kind of because I am. I spent hours before our not-conducted first battle planning out potential counters/strategies/blowing all of my money for gimmicks to even have a shot, and this never happened, and I'm kind of sad about that, especially since I did everything I could to make it happen. Apologies for the passive aggressive.

I understand that there's a large chance that I would lose a battle to Ataro, and I probably wouldn't bet on myself over Ataro, and you're probably just making a decision that would reflect a potential outcome. I understand that seeing a three-part final between the Elite Four/Champ is a lot more entertaining than seeing little old me crushed by Syn's bugs and Ash's EM's. I understand that these factors no doubt contributed to your final decision, and I also understand that those are perfectly valid reasons for considering who should move on in this case.

I don't understand why my apparent lack of activity is being held against me, especially when said lack of activity really doesn't exist. I don't understand (even less than the first point) why there have been assumptions made of my future activity, especially when these assumptions seemed to be based on absolutely nothing besides ???, which bothers me a lot. I don't understand why you claim to have received information when I've been consulted literally zero times about this until now, when I'm suddenly disqualified for showing up to a scheduled battle and, I guess, not wanting to stay up until 5am.

That being said, okay, let's minimize the confusion that goes down and keep the thread clean. I'll forfeit anyway. I would just really prefer that someone come out and say that I'm being bumped from this not because of no activity/lack of effort on my part, but because no one thought I would win anyway.

 

Never once have I ever denied anyone the chance to explain their side. As for being asked to give information, I asked at the beginning of the tournament to be contacted early in the round if there were conflicts, and the time conflict between you and Ataro wasn't brought to me by either of you. It was brought up in Staff by a third party, and I never would have known.

My apologies, my math has apparently been faulty. Yes, this seems more even.

Again, my apologies, but I refer you to my statement above about how it's the trainer's responsibility to seek out the tournament host when there are issues instead of doing nothing. However, I am glad to see that there were attempts on your end too.

Where did I ever say that you're disqualified? My post was explaining my line of thinking and a request for more information. As far as I'm concerned, neither of you is disqualified. It may have been a mistake for me to post this in the open forum instead of through PM, but this round has dragged on far too long and I figured posting out here would elicit quicker reactions.

Considering I'm dating someone who has roughly the same time difference, I think I have a decent handle on it.

Because of my incredibly shitty activity recently, I did not know this. Another break down in communication.

Unfortunately, I don't see what alternative I have. Rounds need time limits otherwise the tournament dies, and when a battle cannot go ahead, a decision needs to be made. I would welcome new ideas on this topic.

Not at all, I completely understand. I would undoubtedly feel the same in your position.

Now it's my turn to be irritated. Not once did those factors contribute to my post. I am a decidedly sub-par battler, and as such, I love to see those who aren't Ash/Syn/Ataro/Pidge/WTP/etc get as many chances as possible to be a surprise upstage. If I had my way, all of those in the highest skill tier would fight each other early on, so there's more chance of an underdog winner.

Again, I find myself apologising, but for more an error in communication than anything else. I probably shouldn't have posted this in the open forum. However, I will refer you to the above points:

-Not once did I say you were bumped. I explained my line of thought and requested more information.
-Ataro being a more experienced battler had NOTHING do to with my reasoning. I am upset that this was a possibility you considered.
-My activity is complete shit and so I don't know anything about what goes on in the community other than what is directly told to me.
-It's the battlers' responsibility to report problems to me as early as possible, which neither you nor Ataro did.

If you wish to forfeit, I will accept it. However, I don't want it to look like you're being forced out or that you're retiring in a huff. I claim responsibility for this issue because of my lack of activity and stressful work environment (poor excuses as they are), and because of this, I am loath to let the situation resolve as such. If I was to extend the round one last time, could you and Ataro find a time to battle in the next week?

 

Good thing I can see Staff discussions and was fully aware that such a conversation even existed!
haha
jokes
actually I'm sorry but what

I asked Swift to ask you if a forum battle could occur, he asked you, I proposed it to Ataro, I was shot down.
Short of asking to extend the battle period to a month, I'm really not sure what else could be said.

Apologies for jumping to conclusions; that was kind of what I gathered from "leaning toward passing Ataro on." Disqualified is probably incorrect for semantics, but as far as I can tell, the end result is that I'm not moving on because of a ruling made by tournament host, which is basically what just happened.

Um, sorry to keep beating a dead horse, but I also agree that posting it out here in a forum I can actually see would elicit a quicker response from me.

Didn't mean to bring personal details into things. Sorry.

I don't mean to offend you. I saw a post that disqualified me with a bunch of things about my activity being stated as fact that weren't even true. Most people bet against me in the main threads, and I don't blame them.

Also, this is hardly the place, but reverse-rigging a tournament to knock out veteran battles seems kind of weird.

I apologize for making this into a crazy thing, but I'm glad that this is out in the open-ish? I mean, I get a chance to be aware that I even needed to defend myself.

I jumped to conclusions, but "tournament director is leaning toward advancing the other person" seems like a pretty clear statement that I was bumped.

Legit, if this was the case, which it apparently wasn't, I wouldn't have blamed you. Also, given that I was able to punch holes in everything else said in the post that disqualified me stated your intents to maybe-bump me, I assumed that there was something unspoken afoot. Apologies.

It was actually mentioned like nine billion times over AIM.
Not to sound passive aggressive (okay I'm really trying here but it's going to sound shitty no matter how politely I try to phrase it) but seriously I don't think it's fair to make an activity-based ruling on advancement when the person making the ruling admits that he's not even active on AIM in the first place. I don't want to step on any toes, but this is how I see it, and I'm very sorry.

Still forfeiting, because
=this is a little awkward by now and I feel like I should just retire in a huff rather than drag the thread out
=it seems like the cleanest way to handle things and this round has been going on forever



Final points:
=this matter was literally discussed somewhere I don't even have access to, but my opponent did, and apparently he was allowed to speak there and I wasn't/can't even see it/wasn't allowed to see it/was never even told that such a place existed
=actually, that's about it
=please don't take this personally

 

@Elysia

This was what I PM'd Chainy after he posted in this thread, which I've also included all of our conversations on PMs and IMs for references but removed from this post. I wanted it to be private since it is kinda an objective view and possibly biased, but I did mention that the points I presented are completely from my POV, and thus it might be good to check with you, Elysia, from your POV.

I understand that you're reasonably active as well, just that we are completely on the opposite sides of the earth. When I referenced the fact that my frequency of activity was higher, I was referring to how I was available at longer times for more days as compared to your frequency.

I also completely acknowledge the fact that our first agreed timing was definitely my fault as I kept you waiting and didn't show up. I have already told you the reason, but I do understand that that is a fact and should not be an excuse.

Making another post in a minute.

 

This is a log of what was in the Staff. It was basically Chainy asking the other Staffs their opinions. At that point of time, I was against the idea of eliminating/tieing all the remaining players since our battle didn't happen and giving Ash first and Winter second. Therefore, I posted evidence of both our attempts to to contact each other to show Chainy that we did try and request for an extension, in which he gave. The reason why I'm showing all of these here is because I'm afraid it does seems like I'm telling Chainy otherwise and discussions are held without you to prove that you didn't show up for battles. The only "discussion" that we had in Staff was me asking for an extension.

The rest which was in the Private Message, which was just sent a few minutes after Chainy posted in this thread was me fighting for the bye based on my own POV and my possibly biased opinion. I did state that Chainy can ask you for your POV.

I do apologize as I probably should have just included you in the sending list of the PM even if I didn't want it to be public.

With that being said, I hope you can revoke your decision and we can try arranging for a final timing. Whoever that can't make it for this timing would then throw in the towel. I understand how you're pissed over this thing since it seemed that the decision was suggested based on what I said only, and it is also true how I missed you on our first arranged timing.

 

Before I begin, I apologize fully for intruding in something that's really none of my business, but I have really strong feelings about something and I really don't think it should be disregarded.

Firstly, I have seen Elysia actively speaking significantly more often than Ataro over the course of this round. Admittedly, I haven't actively seeked out Ataro because I've had no reason to, but the point still stands. In terms of activity, I feel like Elysia has been more active than Ataro. I was also around with Swifty for one of her scheduled attempts at battling Ataro, and he was a no show for whatever reason. (Sleeping, I think? I don't remember.) She's already said twice she's forfeiting, so I'll leave it at that, but I feel like that should be said.

Secondly, I really dislike the idea of how the first mention of any issues to this battle was brought up in Staff to Chainy. Either one of them could've mentioned it here sooner, of course, but I really dislike the idea of how Ataro posted IM logs in Staff without also posting something publicly for Elysia to defend herself, let alone be aware of. I can understand why things were posted there because things were brought up in Staff, but something also should've been said publicly as well instead of waiting until after the round has technically ended to bring it to public view. I think something should be done about this in case it becomes an issue in future tourneys, but that's an entirely separate thought that can be addressed later in Staff. The point here I want to make is that it should've been brought up sooner, whether it be by Ataro, Chainy, or even Elysia. I'm specifically looking at the first two since they were the ones that brought it in Staff, but really, blame can go on all three. Elysia should've been able to defend herself a lot sooner than this though.

Thirdly (and probably finally), I really dislike the idea of Ataro advancing to the finals without having battled once. Ataro's a good battler, yes, I'll give him that. Elysia is too, though. They couldn't schedule a battle, and she's said she's forfeiting twice, but I really don't think Ataro should advance without having battled once to get there. Both Ash and Syn battled twice, and I really feel like it's a little unfair that they both had to work to get to the finals while all Ataro's had to do so far is post in the sign up thread and try (and fail) to schedule a battle with Elysia. Have Ataro battle literally anyone else in round 2, or hell, anyone else who's been in this tourney. Just exclude Elysia from it and roll a dice if you have to, but make him battle someone. Don't just let him have what basically feels like a free ride to the finals. Win or lose, he can advance to the finals, but a free ride to the finals is just no.

It's also been suggested that only top 2 get prizes, and I really support this, especially if Ataro's getting a free ride to the finals.

Again, sorry for possibly intruding, but I had things to say, and I really don't want to stay silent regarding this, nor do I feel I should have to.

EDIT: Also, I think the IM convos should be posted here as well instead of being removed or whatever, but that's just me.

 

Yea, one of you two should've said something a lot sooner and the battles should've just been reshuffled. And if you don't believe me think about this: we literally already reshuffled the battles once in this round.

If anyone should be upset about this it's me! My opponent forfeited and all I got was a harder opponent. When Ataro's forfeits, he gets a bye /s

 

Just refuting a couple of points.

Just because I didn't speak or chat in the URPG Chat does not mean I'm not online. Most of the times I'm online, I don't even send anything in the chatroom.

There wasn't a need for Elysia to defend herself because no one was saying it was her fault as all. The only reason I posted the logs was purely factual and I didn't want to be accused of one-siding it or whatever. Like I said earlier, the post in Staff was only to seek for an extension as I believe both me and Elysia are active players and have been arranging times to battle, unlike inactive players in the past.

I honestly don't think it's an issue that I got a free ride to the finals. It's not like I played my cards on purpose to get a free ride. It's the result of a coincidence and luck. And probably the small amount of entrants as well. However, I do think a reduction in prizes is justified.

I don't mind, but I don't see how that would help.

With that being said and seeing how the matter has turned out, if Elysia is still gonna forfeit, I'm gonna forfeit as well.