Thread: EXTERMINATING Basics

You probably think this is a joke thread and there's a new ref/judge/something. Well joke's on you, this one's real.

We all know basics are the biggest mess in URPG and have been a few years. Evolution appeals to people for several reasons (for instance, enjoying the journey or simply wanting it over and done with) and basics fail at all of them. There is no "journey" to saying the same move 20 times. Asking around for days on some occasions is not just getting it over and done with. It's also a very abusable system that can even discourage people who have no interest in abusing it (for instance, when Bee didn't want to buy things so he could get the evolution in his Pokédex and then gift it). As far as I can tell, basics are only "liked" for free money or being the only way to evolve Pokémon. The system has been in need of change for a few years and every knew it, but with a lack of alternatives.

So how about an alternative idea?

Originally Posted by The Idea

Ways to earn experience:

• Use the Pokémon in a Contest (any type)
• Use a Rare Candy
• Use the Pokémon in an actual battle, 2v2+ (none of these pointless 2HKOs people do now)
• Use the Pokémon in battle in the National Park (NOT fleeing)
• Complete three encounters with the Pokémon in the National Park (not including the above)

Changes that accompany this

• Add Rare Candies to the Pokémart – Current price suggestion 1k each, 6k for 7, 8k for 10.
• Add Rare Candies to the Underground – Current suggestion is add 1 Rare Candy, 3 Rare Candy, 5 Rare Candy at the end of evolution stones
• Some amount of Starter Package modifications*

Spoiler:

*The starter package is tricky. Obviously the current system enables new players to easily build up a roster by using the basics pay to buy another Pokémon. If we remove the focus on that type of basic battles (and/or 1v1 entirely, Winter suggested leaving 1v1s), building up an initial roster can be difficult. More problematic, however, is finding a person who can give them a fair first battle. First impressions are important and heavily unbalanced first battles is the way to make people stick around. On other hand, there's already quite a bit included in the starter package. Compared to when most of us joined, we would now get $7,000, a free mart Pokémon, a free EM, and $5,000 Contest Credits more (okay, there was a thread for claiming that $5,000 CC back then, but you had to know about it before you did contests). Of course, in those days finding other new members was extremely easy.

Let's do some math about the starter package. Assume a new trainer picks up Charmander and Dratini as their two Pokémon. $10,000 to spend would buy a maximum 12 Rare Candies, should they attempt that route. At a minimum, that's 8 more evolution points needed and a lack of remaining money. If they're a Park person, it's easy enough to go on a beginner run and at least get one of the two to the middle evolution (though that also takes $1,000 of their cash and probably adds a third Pokémon to evolve). So odds are, they're just going to jump in and do a 2v2 battle with someone. Unfortunately, very few active members have two Pokémon which are a fair matchup for their Charmander and Dratini. One of two things is likely to happen: Their opponent uses much better Pokémon and easily wins (probably even if they're using the weakest Pokémon they have) or their opponent doesn't try to win and often makes the battle feel boring without the sense of challenge (if the new member catches on, some intentional loses are more obvious than others). The former is probably more likely, so they'll get $500 and a crushing defeat... And still only able to do the same thing again. It's not likely to be an exciting first experience in URPG in either case, unless they're lucky enough to find one of those two or three people who can put out an even team for them to battle.

The current proposal is 5 free Rare Candies in the starter package and a free (EM?) IF they got a friend to join with them (which would drastically improve their early game experience, as they would have an opponent with about the same experience and level of Pokémon/EMs to compete with).

Of course, as this is such a big change, it can be implemented in a few different ways. We could implement it at any point in its entirety. We could phase it in slowly, such as implementing the new system options and giving a certain period of time before the old system is removed entirely. Or perhaps it needs more work before being implemented and we need to take it back to the drawing board.

EDIT: I also forgot to mention that there would potentially be a chance for all current members to claim a few Rare Candies when this first happened. Also, Siless suggested changing the evolution requirement numbers (preliminary numbers were 5 for single evolutions and 4-3 for double evolutions).

EDIT2: Sou Cleife suggested allowing a 1v1 or two for new members starting out to make it easier to get the hang of it and less intimidating. HKim suggested naming the three most common rule types to allow new members to not need to memorize them from the beginning, current name suggestions are "Standard" for XY Public Open, "Competitive" for XY Private Preview, and "Secret" for XY Private Full (or "Standard" for XY Public Open, "Modern" for XY Private Preview, and "Legacy" for XY Private Full)).

Originally Posted by Xali

Or if you are open to other suggestions...

Why not just implement a basics battle de-evolution clause.

Where basically anyone can battle the new comer by simply using the basic form of whatever they Pokémon they have in their stats.

Of course there would have to be a ban list of what is allowed to be used and what isn't. For example you could bar Weavile and Scyther of you wanted.

Additionally if you still deem it unfair due to the EMs on our more experienced players mons you can implement a rule for using only level up moves in basics battles.

Using this setup you don't have to worry about finding opponents.

URPG is already complicated enough as it is, why add Rare Candy nonsense to it. Plus this basics clause if you will would only be available for use to new members and for a specific amount of time. I would say maybe 2 months or 3?

I don't think it takes that long to be established.

I suggested basically the same thing over on BMG. My solution to the EMs problem, though, was that we could offer a discount on EMs bought for basic Pokemon. That way, we'd have an incentive for people to keep their Pokemon un-evolved, while giving brand-new Pokemon a better chance to compete in those de-volution battles.

Is there any reason evolving through Contests can't be added today? Like... as soon as someone reads this posts. Just say... okay, do it! Done!

Rare Candy = bad idea. You'll be making a big mistake if you think this will solve anything.

I haven't URPG'd in years buuut I like the idea of having a basics clause. Little cup is fun. :D Sounds like a clever solution!

Originally Posted by Jack of Clovers

Is there any reason evolving through Contests can't be added today? Like... as soon as someone reads this posts. Just say... okay, do it! Done!

Rare Candy = bad idea. You'll be making a big mistake if you think this will solve anything.

As Head of Contests, I officially approve this.

What would be a better alternative for Rare Candies then?

Originally Posted by Pokemon Trainer Sarah

I haven't URPG'd in years buuut I like the idea of having a basics clause. Little cup is fun. :D Sounds like a clever solution!

I think it's a nice addition whether or not the basics requirements changes. I'm in favor of adding it as an optional rule for any casual battles (as in, not gym or other special battles), similar to Sky Battles and Inverse Battles.

Also you should come back and join us!

Well, I really can't think of anything other than rare candies. What would rare candies do? I guess we'll have to include levels in this. For example: I'll 11 level ups, either by rare candies ad etc., to make a level 5 Bulbasaur evolve into a Ivysaur. But then stat changes will also be include. Wouldn't make sense to have a level 1 Cubone to have an Attack stat of 160 (I dunno, I just chose a random number). What I was thinking was to use rare candies and contests as replacements of the battle requirements of a Pokémon. For example, Charmander needs to been in five battles to evolve into Charmeleon, but what instead of five battles, five contests, or 3 battles and two rare candies, and so on. Of course, used rare candies might what to be written down in the stats.

Originally Posted by Ash K.

What would be a better alternative for Rare Candies then?

You guys will need to be willing to reconstruct the entire battling section. Let me know if this is something you'd be serious to committing to.

Originally Posted by EmpireCrusher203

Well, I really can't think of anything other than rare candies. What would rare candies do? I guess we'll have to include levels in this. For example: I'll 11 level ups, either by rare candies ad etc., to make a level 5 Bulbasaur evolve into a Ivysaur. But then stat changes will also be include. Wouldn't make sense to have a level 1 Cubone to have an Attack stat of 160 (I dunno, I just chose a random number). What I was thinking was to use rare candies and contests as replacements of the battle requirements of a Pokémon. For example, Charmander needs to been in five battles to evolve into Charmeleon, but what instead of five battles, five contests, or 3 battles and two rare candies, and so on. Of course, used rare candies might what to be written down in the stats.

Levels are still not happening. Ever. I used the name "Rare Candy" more similarly to this:



Also, ≈64 battles to get a Hydreigon is not reasonable.

Originally Posted by Jack of Clovers

You guys will need to be willing to reconstruct the entire battling section. Let me know if this is something you'd be serious to committing to.

I still don't see why. Note that this does include discussions about further starter kit changes and other potential payment modifiers to balance out the effect of this on getting started, but I don't see this causing a need for anything more than that. Happy to hear reasons why it needs significantly more changes than that.