The Legend of the Many Forms

There were some discussions about some discrepancies involving legends, as well as the seemingly-arbitrary differentiation between Rotom and Pikachu.

Currently, several legendary Pokémon which can semi-freely change form in game are decided at point of capture in URPG. Among other things, this restricts the movepool of Deoxys and Shaymin (and removes a bit of a nightmare relating to form moves, in particular SMs). Here are the affected Pokémon and how they might work. An alternative is to do the same thing as listed without items for Shaymin, Deoxys, Tornadus, Thundurus, Landorus, and Hoopa. Even in this case, the Timespace Orbs should be added and Giratina should still work as listed or similarly.

Shaymin: Currently locked into a form upon acquisition. Can only be changed due to freezing mid-battle, and that means altering its moveset mid-battle.
Proposal: Acquired in Land Form. Can buy Gracedia from mart. When you own a Gracedia, moves from both forms are always available (as they are in game) and you can change any time it is not currently in battle. Must update stats before battle to reflect the change.

Deoxys: Currently locked into a form upon acquisition. Can't be changed, and several moves that are level up for some form were given out as events for other forms in weird and complicated ways (especially hunting down and tracking what form each event was).
Proposal: Acquired in form of choice. Can buy Meteorite from mart. When you own a Meteorite, moves from all forms are always available (as they are in game) and you can change any time it is not currently in battle. Must update stats before battle to reflect the change.

Giratina: Currently locked into a form upon acquisition. Can't be changed, has no effect on moveset.
Proposal: Add all three Timespace Orbs to the mart (seems only fitting as Soul Dew is already there). Giratina is by default in Altered form, but will be in Origin while holding the Griseous Orb (also can allow an alternative to simulate the Distortion World, perhaps as a terrain?).

Tornadus/Thundurus/Landorus: Currently locked into a form upon acquisition. Can't be changed, has no effect on moveset.
Proposal: Acquired in form of choice. Can buy Reveal Glass from mart. When you own a Reveal Glass, you can change their form any time it is not in battle. Must update stats before battle to reflect the change.

Hoopa: Currently freely changeable without item.
Proposal: Make consistent with Shaymin, Deoxys, Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus, either by giving it an item or not using items for any of them. To be honest, it probably reduces the complexity with Shaymin and Deoxys' Ultra Dex pages to not require an item to unlock other moves, though it is up for debate if doing so is too broken. Could easily be said it's not as it's already so hard to acquire them.

Kyurem: Currently locked into a form upon acquisition. Can't be changed, and although the movesets vary slightly, I believe it does not limit it more than in game as they don't carry over anyways.
Proposal: Do not change. Changing Kyurem's forms requires fusing or de-fusing with Reshiram or Zekrom, and due to the scarce availability of legends it does not seem practical to require having two of them to get Kyurem-White or Kyurem-Black.

Also, for those of you who don't care about all these legends but do care about the consistency, it was also mentioned that Pikachu and Rotom should be more consistent with each other. Currently Rotom requires an item while Pikachu does not.

Please discuss in a civilized manner the suggestions listed here, as well as other alternatives not mentioned. It's a lot of text for a suggestion which applies only to a rarely used portion of the game, but it is still worth considering for the sake of consistency and alignment with the games.

Also if we want to get really nitpicky about game consistency, through something which I believe is not a glitch (unlike the Rage glitch[/urll]) in generation III, Shedinja is allowed access to all moves Ninjask learns level up at the level which Nincada evolves. That would would mean that Shedinja can choose one of the following sets of moves: [Double Team, Fury Cutter, Screech], [Swords Dance], [Slash], [Agility], [Baton Pass]. Not that Shedinja can really do much in URPG.

 

"When you own a Meteorite, moves from all forms are always available"

I'm confused about this part. So are you referencing the fact that you can change form at any time and thus get access to form-exclusive moves that way, or do you mean that no matter what form you are in you can use all moves any form can learn regardless of method? I prefer the former, personally, because that's how it works in-game and that's the whole purpose of this post, but I'm unsure what you mean.

Also, for the record, Hoopa's item is the Prison Bottle.

Finally, I'm of the opinion that none of the items (other than the Timespace Orbs, Soul Dew, and Weather Orbs, but including the Secret Key) should be in URPG. I dont think you should have to spend money here that you don't in-game. Mega Stones and TMs are exceptions because the game would be thrown off-balance if they were so easily obtainable. In this case, the forms balance each other out because each has its positives and negatives.

Consistency is nice, but if you really want to be consistent either give the item to the person for free when they acquire the legend, make a thread where you post each time you want to change form, or else don't include the items at all imo.

 

If you want to be consistent, then all the evolution items for happiness/moss rock/ice rock should be removed too, on that logic.

I'm not fussed with having to pay like 2k to alter the forms of a legend or Rotom or whatnot, since that money is the parallel of the effort of physically going to the place/obtaining the item needed to change the Legend/mon form in-game.

As far as the Deoxsys goes, I don't think all moves should be available at all times even with an item, since that's a bit overpowered. It should stay aligned with what form-specific moves it's supposed to have.

Having a tracking thread to do things would be a good idea.

 

How about 1 Secret key allows infinite Rotom form changes instead of one-use? Pretty sure I've bought like 7 over the years for no real reason

 

that's how we rip people off dumb

 

So we should make Pikachu need an item (?)

 

I meant that they're available by their normal method, TMs/MTs/SMs must still be purchased, but can be done so for any form and all form's level up moves are default available. Sorry if that was unclear.

I can see either working and am open to both options. Part of the purpose of this is to see which is the more popular decision (and what reasons for or against each). Also giving the item with the legend defeats the purpose of it existing. See point below for an alternative option.

You could make the argument that since the places on map or other conditions do not exist in URPG, it falls under Mystery Dungeon's category of evolution without that which does require such an item. Happiness is a bit trickier to justify as it would, under that scenario, fall into the same category as levels (well, actually it's just a paradox).

If it's really a big deal, could say that you could get a temporary item as one your 10 free EMs on temp legends if you so chose. It would be fairly comparable to buying an EM for it, except that it is not lost when the legend is lost if you actually go and buy it.

To be fair, in the games, Deoxys can change form freely without having its moveset changed. That means any move available for one form is equally available to the others. Also worth mention that if it is allowed to change forms but not have all of its moves, a lot of level up moves for one form are TMs, MTs, or SMs for other forms. It's like perma moves, except that it can go back and forth between needing and not needing them.

Tracking threads can be helpful. If it's implemented, may as well have Pikachu/Rotom use it too.

Honestly, my stance on Pikachu was to buy the costumes. It seems that the general consensus is to have either all of them (including Pikachu and Rotom) require items or require nothing.

 

I'm mostly just gonna miss the point here and quibble about Shedinja, I personally think it should get all of those because Shedinja is life; Shedinja is love.

I agree with the items thing, but if the items won't be one time thing than I think the Secret Key shouldn't be either.