B2W2 is in Limbo

With the release of the games Black 2 and White 2 we released the battle style B2W2. When I had suggested it probably close to a year ago (a suggestion that went nowhere until it was brought back up many months later), my idea with it was to have a fair battle system of sending privately but that still allows the flexibility of DPPt so that battles such as Elite Four, Champion, Legend Defender, and Tournaments could be done under a more flexible ruleset. However, so far no Tournament has allowed it as a rule (unless Keldeo happened since it was released, but if so that was only because Keldeo allowed ANY ruleset with only one or two restrictions (4v4+ iirc)) and it's not a legal rule in Elite Four, Champion, or Legend Defender, and I'm not sure if it's legal in Orange Islands (though only Mikan and Pummelo could use it without violating their special rule, technically Kumquat could use it too to allow picking items and abilities when you send it out but still having the Pokémon predetermined).

Logically the reason that rules such as DPPt shouldn't be allowed in these situations is because of the unfairness introduced by sending publicly, especially the massive disadvantage of whoever sending first, possibly also requiring people to be good at predicting due to how important these battles are. B2W2 fits these restrictions, while still adding a new level of strategy. Additionally, in Elite Four and Champion it would obviously only get used if the Elite Four member or Champion wants to use it. In Tournaments, if it's not the default rule, either battler could say they don't want it and then it wouldn't get used. Only in Legend Defender, where the challenger is allowed to change one rule, would it be possible for it to be thrust upon the defender.

Right now B2W2 is really only used for fun battles. I think SLC uses it in Dewford, but other than that I don't see it used in anything important. Most gym leaders either prefer DPPt for a variety of reasons, including forcing the challenger to send first, or Revolution, where they can limit the challenger's pool of Pokémon to the same size as their own. Personally I like being able to pick my Pokémon as I go, even if it puts me having to pick constantly from 12 while my opponent can pick from as many as about 200 (YES, I'M LOOKING AT YOU BEE), and I would use it in my Elite Four Reserve position given the option.

I'm putting a poll on this thread, I'M SETTING IT SO YOU CAN PICK MORE THAN ONE OPTION, so pick all that you agree with.

 

I'm very neutral on this. I'm not particularly against it being used in places, but I'm very against it being used anywhere as a default game mode, bar perhaps a tournament where that is the special rule.

 

Add as an option to everything (except maybe e4) but don't make it a default for anything.

 

I highly doubt this rule will ever be allowed in the more serious matches, such as E4 and Champion. It's effectively the same thing as being able to send into battle any Pokemon from any box in the PC. I completely disagree that this "adds a new level of strategy". It completely removes a level - actually having your team limited to the intended 6 Pokemon. Revolution/BW Revolution rules will remain the only competitively viable rules for these battles.

As for having it as an option in tournaments and LD, I'm not totally against that, but given that the whole purpose of B2W2 is to be a balance between DPPT/BW and Revo/BW Revo rulesets, it doesn't really fit in with either. It's a mechanically different option to both, and therefore shouldn't really be given as an option with either of them. That said, there's no reason an entire tournament can't be played in B2W2.

 

B2W2 should have been introduced as 'Revolution' to begin with. The thing that connects BW and BW Revolution is Team Preview - they are EXACTLY the same setup, just one is sent publicly and one privately. You can't say the same for DP and Revo, because one's public and doesn't limit choice, and one's private and does. There's no logical connection between them, but there IS a logical connection between DP and B2W2 (both do not limit choice - the only difference is one is public, one is private). The logical connection to Revo would be something like BW without Team Preview, or sending teams publicly through some 'A sends 1, B sends 2, A sends 2, B sends 1' method.

I know it won't change, but that's just how I see it. I think it's as viable as Revo and BW Revo, and should be allowed to be used in E4, LD, etc...

 

While MK has kinda brought it up, the naming conventions of these rulesets are pretty awful because of how mixed-up they currently are. How would everyone feel about renaming them, at the very least from DPPT onwards?

For clarification:

DPPT: Public send, no pre-selection, therefore no reveal
Revo: Private send, pre-selection, no reveal

BW: Public send, pre-selection, reveal
BW Revo: Private send, pre-selection, reveal

B2W2: Private send, no pre-selection, therefore no reveal


I'm of the opinion that the important factors in allowing rulesets for important matches is NOT ONLY the private sends, but also the team pre-selection. This is why only Revo and BW Revo were allowed. B2W2 is obviously a private-send version of DPPT, which is not considered an acceptable option for top-tier battles. In a sense it is better, but only 50% of the way there.

 

I've personally found this method really stupid past BW, since it's just been adding a different combination of team reveal, team select, and private sending each time a new game comes out. I think it would be easier if we had these three things as definitive rules for a battle, and they can be turned on and off freely, just like you can with starting weather, terrain, and clauses. It's a lot easier, and clearer, than all of these naming mechanics which I need to be reminded of each time I battle. If you still wanted to enforce team select (equivalent of Revo/BW Revo) for official battles and E4, then I don't think this method makes it any harder to do so. This also allows for more flexibility in the options then we currently have, because at this rate the XY style will just be DPPt but you send your teams in public first.

 

^

Pretty much exactly what I was thinking. We have battle rules determined by three things:

• Public or Private send
• Team pre-selected or on-the-fly
• Team revealed at start of battle or not

 

Approval. This way people can decide on whatever battle style they want, and we just have lock the Pre-Selected and Private clauses for "important" battles.

 

I like it, but you'd have to have a Gen setting as well for the people that actually like GSC and RSE.

 

Most of those people have died off. We should move on from that dark time.​